[billbears]

The America that Hamilton envisioned was not in conflict with the Constitution

You've got to be kidding me. Almost everything that Hamilton called for in his plan to the Constitutional Convention was in direct conflict to what conservatives today view as being the vision of the Founders

1St. The Supreme Legislative Power of the United States of America to be vested in two distinct Bodies of Men, the one to be called the Assembly, the other the Senate, who together shall form the Legislative of the United States, with Power to pass all Laws whatsoever, subject to the negative hereafter mentioned.

2d. The Assembly to consist of Persons elected by the People to serve for three years.

3d. The Senate to consist of persons elected to serve during good behavior, their election to be made by electors chosen for that purpose by the People. In order to this the States to be divided into election districts. On the death, removal, or resignation of any Senator his place to be filled out of the district from which he came.

4th. The Supreme Executive Authority of the U. States to be vested in a Governor to be elected to serve during good behavior. His election to be made by Electors chosen by Electors chosen by the people in the election districts aforesaid. His Authorities and Functions to be as follow.-to have a negative upon all Laws about to be passed, and the execution of all laws passed.-To have the intire direction of War when authorized or begun.-To have, with the advice and approbation of the Senate, the Power of making all Treaties.-To have the sole appointment of the Heads or Chief-Officers of the departments of Finance, War, and Foreign Affairs.-To have the nomination of all other Officers (Ambassadors to Foreign Nations included) subject to the approbation or rejection of the Senate.

10th. All Laws of the particular States contrary to the Constitution or laws of the United States to be utterly void. And the better to prevent such Laws being passed; the Governor or President of each State shall be appointed by the General Government and shall have a Negative upon the Laws about to be passed in the State of which he is Governor or President.

Senators for life, President for life, and the measly states (at least in the view of Hamilton) had their governors appointed by Congress I assume? That's not a Federal Republic.

Of course granted we don't live in a Federal Republic anymore, so I imagine Hamilton would be quite pleased with what his vision, and those that so willingly followed it (Clay and the other guy), brought upon the citizens of the respective states

[billbears]

bump

[Publius]

The elements you have quoted come from Hamilton's five-hour stemwinder that opened the Constitutional Convention. I've always called it the Grand Design speech.

When it was over, there was a long silence. George Washington, presiding officer of the Convention, cleared his throat and uttered the 18th Century equivalent of "Next!". Even Madison was embarrassed for his old friend.

Hamilton had misread the situation and gone too far.

[Who is John Galt?]

Bump!

;>)

[sheltonmac]

...I imagine Hamilton would be quite pleased with what his vision, and those that so willingly followed it (Clay and the other guy), brought upon the citizens of the respective states.

I like to think that even Hamilton would blush if he could see the current condition of these United States.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Anti-Hamiltonians keep mistaking description for prescription. Hamilton's speech at the convention was NOT a "plan" he described it as a "sketch of a plan" and its intent was to stake out ground to the right of either the Virginia plan and the NJ plan. This made it appear to be a compromise when the delegates voted for the Virginia plan.

He, like many there, were brainstorming and ideas expressed were not necessarily proposed. Hamilton and Washington were also meeting out of doors to devise strategy and their strategy was to have him take time away from those wishing to discuss the NJ plan, that was why he took the entire last day before the vote between VA/NJ plans. Why do you think Washington let him do that?

Much like any good negoitator would have done H made proposals more extreme than could be accepted knowing that by doing so he could move the convention towards the Va plan which was acceptable (if not enthusiastically so) to him.

In addition some of the ideas that he had seriously entertained were changed in the course of discussion with the other delegates. Madison made similiarly radical proposals which he modified through discussion.

The clearest proof that this was not a "plan" or even serious proposal was the FACT that no vote was taken on it. Even so many of his proposals were incorporated into the actual final document.