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To: MissAmericanPie
It's not amnesty. It's a worker program and a strengthening of our borders. If you want amnesty, let Kerry or any of the Democrats win the White House. They have promised instant no questions asked amnesty with full citizenship and voting rights to all 12,000,000 illegals immediately. And I don't think I'll be placing dislike for the proposed FTAA treaty in a higher position than winning the war on terror. There will be many fights over that one in the coming years despite who wins the White House. The important thing now is to concentrate on winning the war and replacing the liberal activists.

Holding the White House and increasing the margins in both houses of congress while keeping the Democrats out will go a long ways in removing corruption and will eventually set the stage for rolling back the liberal excesses. A large part of the problem is the liberal activist judiciary. The activist judges must be replaced as they die off or retire with people of character who will abide by the Constitution. We know exactly what kind of judges the Democrats appoint and I don't know about you, but I don't want them. The only way to get the turnover in the judiciary is for the Republicans to hold the White House and the Senate for several terms in a row. Now is not the time to give it up.

We have the best chance with Bush and the Republicans. The Republicans are already starting to make noises about spending and some of the other proposals. There's no way the Kerry/Clinton/Kennedy/Boxer, et al, are going to improve our chances. Vote them out.

I don't think the Republican party will be liberal-lite. I believe the Bush people have done the calculus to do what it takes to deprive the Democrats the edge on certain issues and hopefully to bring some of the Democrat and swing voters their way, so he can hold the White House. I also believe that each of Bush's plans and proposals have some door or feature that is an opening to privatization, or accountability, or is in some measure better than the Democrat proposal for the respective issue. If we don't get Bush, we will get the Democrat plan. It ain't pretty.

Again, the major issue in the long term is the turnover in the judiciary. I believe we'll never have a shot at regaining our freedoms or our constitutional government until we dump the majority of the activists off the bench. And in the short and mid terms, winning the war on terror has to be the highest priority. I believe we should do whatever it takes to reelect Bush. A Democrat as commander-in-chief at this time would be a total disaster for us, and for the entire world.
151 posted on 02/05/2004 2:04:27 AM PST by Jim Robinson (I don't belong to no organized political party. I'm a Republycan.)
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To: Jim Robinson
On another thread in recent days, I made reference in a post to you concerning those on FR who are, in my opinion, just as damaging as the Bush-haters. They are those who are looking for a fight with conservatives EVERY day, and on virtually any issue. With 'friends' like them, GW doesn't need enemies.

You're one of the brightest guys around, and I think you well know a number of the ones I'm referring to. A couple are sharpening their skills on this very thread...a thread that no true supporter of the President would have cause to stir up trouble on.

'Nuff said.

Regards
161 posted on 02/05/2004 3:11:07 AM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Jim Robinson
Amen,Jim.We must come together for the good of the nation and defeat the democrats in November.I have yet to find a perfect President.I enthusiastically support Bush for President.
163 posted on 02/05/2004 3:16:01 AM PST by MEG33 (BUSH/CHENEY '04)
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To: Jim Robinson
I am sure you are aware that some of the worst liberals on the Supreme court were put there by Republican Presidents. I would like to know the credentials of Bush's appointees. I agree that it's vital to keep the house and senate and to grow the number of Republicans in both. I get the first chance to do that now that Frost has been nutered. If the FTAA and amnesty is to be stopped it will have to be there.

With the workers program illegals get eventual citizenship along with voting rights and there is nothing in the plan regarding protection of our borders or stopping future illegal invasion. The only way to influence that outcome is with a republican house and senate, if it can be influenced at all. And I think striking fear in their hearts over their political careers is about the only way to make an impression.

All this program says to me is that for Republicans to have any hope at all of garnering any votes from these new citizens and keeping the 50/50 balance that exists now, they will have to promote liberal ideals and promote like invasion, and therefore move ever farther to the left until they have entirely replaced their conservative base. If conservatives are vital to their election at present I strongly feel we need to walk away from the negotiating table with a big chunk of red meat.

I did hear something encouraging, Bush has not released the funds for that huge education bill and Ted Kennedy is steaming over it, lol. Ted scowled all during the State of the Union address. So there is evidence that Bush is playing a smart game. I was happy to see that article, it was light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe the education bill is not the only thing he has not released the funds for.

It may prove tragic that Bush has alienated conservatives, he rolled the dice and bet the farm on being able to replace them with cross over votes and minorities. No one knows what the payoff for that gamble will be until Nov.

The polls are not looking good at present, and that gamble looks to have been more destructive than constructive, but then for some reason the Republican party has yet to begin to campaign. That may turn around. But no matter it is vital that we hold onto the house and senate. I hope that disgruntled conservatives, of which I am one, will at least show up at the ballot box in cases where a congressman or senators seat is in the balance.
164 posted on 02/05/2004 3:16:09 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Jim Robinson
It's not amnesty. It's a worker program and a strengthening of our borders.

The Bush plan is an Amnesty in every significant way that the Reagan Amnesty was an Amnesty. We can't split hairs on the one without splitting hairs on the other, and if we try to do that, we'll be in the realm of "defition of is" and "definition of sex."

The major differences between the Bush Amnesty and the Reagan Amnesty are the job requirements, and that the Reagan Amnesties inital temporary period lasted 18 months, vs. 36 months for the Bush Amnesty. While a higher proportion of Illegals were eligible during the Reagan Amnesty, a higher gross number of Illegals would qualify under the Bush Amnesty.

It's true that the Bush Amnesty probably wouldn't be as bad as any of the Democrat Amnesties, but it is worse than the three Clinton Section 245(i) Amnesties combined, which legalized just over a million Illegals.

I say "probably wouldn't be as bad," because there are indications that the President might combine elements of the McCain and Cornyn Amnesties (S. 1461 and S. 1387). Cornyn's Amnesty would be not only be available to Illegals who haven't arrived yet, but also for Illegals who arrive within the first year of its enactment. Talk about an open invitation for more Illegals.

It's also difficult to see how any Amnesty would make our borders more secure without diligent enforcement of our immigration laws. Yet nothing's stopping the President from doing that now, yet he doesn't.

One glaring example is that when an Illegal loses his deportation hearing, he isn't taken into custody pending deportation. He's given a time and place to show up for his deportation, and released.

Not surprsingly, we have over 400,000 thousand Illegal Alien absconders running around the country, including 80,000 hardened criminals and 3,800 people from countries with significant Al Qaeda presences. Well over 100,000 of those absconders lost their deportation hearings since 9/11, and the number of absconders under President Bush will reach about 200,000 in his first term.

Under President Bush's Treasury Department, US banks have been given guidelines for the acceptance of Mexican matricula consular ID cards. The only purpose of this is so that Illegals may take the money they've gotten from Illegal employment and more easiily transfer it across borders.

Rather than make life more difficult for Illegals, President Bush generally attempts to make it easier for them. This is been true since at least 1994, when he spoke against California's Proposition #187.

It's hard to imagine that he would diligently enforce immigration laws after Amnesty, if he's not interested in doing it beforehand.

An interesting bit of legislation in Congress right now is Charlie Norwood's HR 2671, the CLEAR act. Here's a press release from Norwood:



This week in Washington

Congressman Charlie Norwood, 9th District, Georgia

 

January 9, 2004

Addressing Criminal Aliens First Step to Fixing Illegal Immigration Problem

 By Congressman Charlie Norwood

 

If it were a secret, it might have made it to a David Letterman list of the Top 10 Worst Kept Secrets in the State of Georgia…  if such a thing existed. 

The fact is, I’m a fan of President Bush.  But that cat, as they say, has been out of the bag for quite a while.  As Commander in Chief, I believe President Bush has truly been the right man at the right time for our nation over these past three challenging years. 

Does that mean I agree with him on everything?  Heck no.  I’ve said plenty of times before that my wife and I are in complete agreement only about 90% of the time!  So there were bound to be and continue to be areas where I take issue with the President. 

When President Bush recently announced his proposal to grant legal status to millions of individuals living and working in America illegally, one of those areas came to light. 

Folks, the President is right about one thing: our immigration system is an absolute mess. 

Depending on who you believe, there are somewhere between 8 to 12 million illegal aliens living in America today.  It’s a staggering number that has steadily risen over the last two decades and costs each of us through its impact on our education system, hospitals, and prisons among other areas of our society. 

Georgia has been far from immune to the problem.  According to figures released early last year by the then-Immigration and Naturalization Service, the number of illegal aliens living in our state grew by roughly 600%, up to 228,000, between the years of 1996 and 2000. 

So, what do we do? 

Well first, I believe the only way we can get a handle on our immigration problem is to correct the one piece of the puzzle that poses the greatest threat and risk to all of us - the criminal alien crisis. 

As I’ve written to you before, there are 80,000 criminal aliens (murderers, rapists, and pedophiles among them) who have served jail time and should have been deported after paying their debt to society.  Instead, these 80,000 individuals have been released back onto our streets by law enforcement because the system our federal government has provided to do the job is inefficient, unaccountable, and just plain out-manned. 

Last summer, along with fellow Georgia Congressman Nathan Deal and U.S. Representatives Allen Boyd of Florida and Melissa Hart of Pennsylvania, I introduced a bipartisan bill that would change all of this.  The bill, called simply the CLEAR Act (or Clear Law Enforcement for criminal Alien Removal Act of 2003), would clarify that local and state law enforcement officials have the authority to enforce immigration laws during the course of their everyday duties.  Furthermore, the bill gives them the training, access to data, and resources they need to get the job done.  And if the federal government doesn’t live up to its end of the bargain by picking up and deporting criminal aliens after they’ve served their time, the CLEAR Act allows the local municipalities to hold the federal government accountable. 

Getting back to the President’s proposal, the tried and true medical adage, “First, do no harm,” comes to mind.  Sadly, harm is exactly what granting ‘guest worker’ legal status to people living and working here illegally would deliver.  And with all due respect to the President, while the Administration has gone to great lengths to point out this proposal isn’t technically amnesty…  the fact is, if it isn’t amnesty - it’s amnesty’s first cousin. 

In one fell swoop, a proposal such as this would send the absolute wrong message to the millions of immigrants who have gone to extraordinary lengths to become naturalized citizens of America legally, encourage more aliens to enter our nation illegally by creating an ultimate reward, further threaten our nation’s homeland security, and potentially exacerbate the growing class of illegal and uneducated workers who will never fully realize the American dream. 

History tells us this is the wrong remedy. 

In 1986, the federal government granted amnesty to almost 3 million illegal aliens in hopes the problem would be resolved.  But the real problem, the inability to enforce our nation’s immigration laws already on the books, was never addressed. 

Eighteen years and 8 to 12 million illegal aliens later, we now know the decision in 1986 was a wrong turn and only made a bad situation worse.  Doing the same in 2004 would be sort of like throwing a match on a powder keg - not a particularly good idea. 

As Congress prepares to get back to work this month, there’s no roadmap for what direction this debate will take.  But this much I do know - before any discussion can take place on Capitol Hill regarding proposals like the President’s, this country absolutely has to address the criminal alien crisis. 

Passing the CLEAR Act and finally giving local and state law enforcement the support it deserves and getting the 80,000 criminal aliens off our streets…  now that’s a good idea and one I’ll be working hard on over the coming months. 

 -30-

 
 
 
CONGRESSMAN CHARLIE NORWOOD 2452 RAYBURN BUILDING WASHINGTON,DC 20515 www.house.gov/norwood



Even Congressman Norwood, who has to be diplomaitic, says "with all due respect to the President, while the Administration has gone to great lengths to point out this proposal isn’t technically amnesty…  the fact is, if it isn’t amnesty - it’s amnesty’s first cousin."

So far, to my knowledge, President Bush hasn't taken a position on the CLEAR Act, yet we can't possibly be serious about enforcing our immigration laws without it.

Shouldn't we get about the common sense steps necessary to combat Illegals now, before rewarding them with legalization? Shouldn't we see if actually enforcing our immigration laws doesn't go a long way to solving the problem, before throwing in the towel and trying a poltically toxic policy disaster like another Amnesty?


319 posted on 02/07/2004 8:28:13 AM PST by Sabertooth (The Republicans have a coalition, if they can keep it.)
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