The Return Of The Giant Sucking Sound

SFGATE.com (The SF Chronicle) ^ | 02/09/04 | Adam Sparks

[lelio]

I have heard of ZERO count 'em ZERO successes in offshoring, with the sole exception of banks

And even then would you know if there was a failure? My interaction with WaMu is to make sure that my direct deposit payroll check goes in and that's about it, which isn't too hard to maintain. Granted they manage to have their website fail about 4 times a year and were hit by the SQL Slammer worm hard, which makes me wonder about their internal security.

I believe the banks have had success in offshoring as banks are all about process. Money goes in, money goes out, and you better account for it every step along the way. They know exactly what they're doing and they know how to measure sucess.

Juxtapose that with a firm that never really knew what they were doing in that industry anyway and didn't know how they were failing. For example, SprintPCS my cell phone provider. I see they're going through Yet Another Outsourcing of their billing department. Those clowns can never send me a correct bill, nor can they keep a website up. Will that change by turning it over to another company? Why would a bad car run better if you give it to a race car driver?

As for XML / SOAP I'm really intrigued about it -- saw a demo of Sun's RAVE IDE (I think its now called Sun One Something) where you made a GUI that checked everyone's schedule by doing SOAP queries to different database. All drag and drop.

So now you're freed from writting thousands of lines of code and can concentrate on delivering apps to further the business along. Ithink that's the only way to combat offshoring of IT jobs -- make it so that there's no reason to export a $100/hr programmer as he gets 10x more stuff done in an hour that anyone else could home to do.

[LowCountryJoe]

Adam Sparks is not a left wing writer though. A protectionist yes but a left winger no. Go through some of his archives and see what I mean. He's pretty good!

[jpsb]

I'm waiting, if no one else addresses programming part of this post I will. 10, 9, 8

[XBob]

31 - "Right now, the political climate demands retaining these government funded public works projects for American engineering firms. Eventually, will a perceived greater public interest favor using taxpayer money to hire cheaper labor abroad?"

This is already happening. Indiana or Illinois just outsourced it's new state program to counter outsourcing to a firm in India. (FR thread several weeks ago)

[lucysmom]

Your post said "employment," not this new, unprecedented, if not contrived term, "employment-population ratio."

Take it up with the Department of Labor, that's where the information came from.

[jpsb]

[As for XML / SOAP I'm really intrigued about it -- saw a demo of Sun's RAVE IDE (I think its now called Sun One Something) where you made a GUI that checked everyone's schedule by doing SOAP queries to different database. All drag and drop.]

XML and SOAP are two different things. XML stands for eXtensivable Markup Language, or something like that. What it really is, is an agreed upon means of exchanging data in a vendor neutral manner (text). SOAP means simple object access protocol, or something like that. SOAP used XML as a means to send messages to a server somewhere on the network. the SOAP servlet or service can read the message, process the request and maybe send a response if need be. Pretty cool, but all that has been done countless times before. RPC, smtp, COM, DCOM, http. etc. etc,. etc. Also some programmer has to build the SOAP service before anyone can use it. Where SOAP and XML shine is that everyone is willing to support it, and SOAP services can run on port 80 which most sys admin types will keep open since http run on port 80. So yea, it's good stuff, but what makes it good stuff is that it has become an accepted standard, not the underlying technology. Cure all? No, standard upon which to build web application? yea, for the moment. until the next new standard arrives.

If you want to play with SOAP let me know, my Web server is also a SOAP service.

[Lael]

American's have been sounding the alarm bell but NO ONE IS LISTENING. This very well could cost President Bush the election. I've had enough of these CFR, Globalist traitors. America is in a race to the bottom, and they could care less! By the time they realize what they have done to America, it will be too late. We are at the mercy of the traitors in our own government.

AMEN!!!

Just to boil the pot a little harder, the people at the Apple Resellers had a half day conference and, naturally, the subject turned to Offshore Outsourcing...

Suffice it to say, my next Job Security Computer will be a Mac!

Apple doesn't outsource, neither does it support organizations that do!!

But, you Microsoftheads should know, by as early as 1997, Redmond had trained, at it's expense...

Tens of Thousands of Chinese to do YOUR JOBS!!

ROTFLMAO!!!

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

"Apple doesn't outsource, neither does it support organizations that do!!"

Are you sure? I would like to believe this, can you verify?
Thanks in advance.

[af_vet_1981]

That's right. Elect Kerry/Hussein. They care.

[raybbr]

I agree that unions are, for the most part, communist at heart. The worst ones are in the public sector because it is our tax dollars that the members are sending to them. Policemen, Firemen, Teachers, Clerical workers, etc. that all work for us are using our tax dollars against us conservatives. However, I think without some unions, or at least the threat of a union, companies would just run roughshod over its employees.

[raybbr]

Don't you know that all we are supposed to want is cheap stuff. What's all this malarky about defense and the national economy? Sheesh!!

Sarcasm is seven letter word!

[inquest]

There can always be a threat of a union, and even a union itself. No one's suggesting that they be made illegal. But they should get absolutely no patronage from government, directly or indirectly. That means antitrust laws must apply to them, for as long as they apply to businesses; "closed shop" contracts - whereby a worker must sign a contract agreeing to join a union in exchange for being allowed to work at a particular place - should be every bit as illegal as "yellow dog" contracts - whereby a prospective worker must sign a contract not to join a union - currently are. And all laws regarding intimidation and other forms of harassment should be fully enforced with them, as with anyone else.

Basically, they should be treated like any other economic special interest. Instead, there seems to be an attitude that they serve some kind of public service or something and therefore are entitled to be cut a little slack. That attitude needs to stop completely.

[Lael]

Are you sure? I would like to believe this, can you verify?

Thanks in advance.

I don't have the link, but there was posted in connection with the CNN-Lou Dobbs website some 250+ companies which do.

I specifically checked Apple...it wasn't there. I don't recall Pixar, either, but Disney was there.

And, unfortunately, so was HP, Gateway [I'm typing this on one], Dell, IBM, Microsoft, Intel, AMD, etc., etc., etc.

Apple's goal seems, at least with the local Resellers, to keep "hands on contact" to maintain the communications flowing up from the user base, to keep Apple's development team 'in touch'.

Seems that the goal is to have their clients empowered to finish most projects so quickly that 'Offshoring' is unnecessary.

Example is that "moveon.org contest". It was open to both Macs and PC's (and mainframes, for all I know).

Fact is, the vast majority that finished were done on Macs.

People on this board focused on the Left Wing thrust of the contest...when the REAL lesson is that Kerry could just have easily been the target, with Macs finishing again in the majority.

[reluctantwarrior]

Well written and reasoned post. I agree that we are insidiuosly being stripped of the wealth creation tools our forefathers had that allowed them social and economic mobility.

[EagleMamaMT]

BRAVO!!! Your post #67 is great! Gotta warn you, though, many, many here at FR despise blue collar workers and make no bones about it. Look back through these outsourcing posts over the last year and you'll see plenty of disparaging remarks directed toward blue collar folks.

[EagleMamaMT]

"And then when that happens the service sector implodes. It's common sense. If I lose my income or most of it--first thing that goes will be the frills. That means less drycleaning, less takeout, Dad's packing his lunch most days, monthly trips to the nail salon or beauty salon for root touch ups-gone. I am cleaning the carpets myself, doing the gardening, the pest control, satellite might get unconnected, no more $40 bottles of Lancome face creams, no more $3.75 lattes and coffees. Etc, etc, etc."

Riri, this is a great post! Why, oh why, can't the free traders understand that a service-based economy is based on the premise of people having enough money to afford services? What happens to the economy when people are NOT making enough money to support a service-based economy?

If your income gets cut drastically, the last thing you're going to do is call the local carpenter to come out and build an addition onto your house. You will also decide against purchasing that new car or joining that great new gym down the street, ditto the restaurants and quaint little antiques shops downtown. More than likely, these families will instead avail themselves, out of necessity, of a myriad of social and governmental services provided at taxpayer expense.

This service-based economy sounds like a bad idea to me!

[EagleMamaMT]

"Political power should be used, not just held, in that regard the major parties differ little."

This is a great quote! IMO, it's "Quote of the Day" material.

[EagleMamaMT]

You're very correct about the skill required to operate heavy equipment, particularly a crane. My husband has been a crane operator for more than 30 years - accident free, I might add. He could walk onto any construction site in the world and be hired immediately because he's a safe operator and a good one. He knows exactly what each type of crane and rigging can do and he won't be bullied or browbeaten by scuzzy job-site superintendents and company "yes men" into taking chances with peoples' lives. Skill? You bet you have to have skill to lift loads that weigh tens of thousands of pounds and place them in the exact spot they're required and without costing the company any losses in equipment, time or lives. He's worth every penny of his pay.

[EagleMamaMT]

"And when one day the host governments of those outsourced companies decide to nationalize the foreign industries, do those TNC's also expect the United Stares Military to then come in an protect them?"

Talk about ironic! American CEOs to young American men and women: "You have to go fight to free our companies! Of course, it's entirely beside the point that we would never hire any of you to actually work for us. We just want you to go fight and maybe die for our companies."

[MissAmericanPie]

"President Bush has done little to stem the stampede of manufacturing jobs that are leaving and bleeding this country

Now that is just not true. He is working feverishly to open the flood gates to illegals so they can further depress American wages and run Americans out of American jobs.