Army tank confiscated in online auction

cnn ^ | February 11, 2004

[stainlessbanner]

BERLIN, Germany (Reuters) -- German police seized a 10-ton armored personnel carrier that two men had put up for auction online, authorities said on Tuesday.

"The men bought the tank from the Greek army and brought it to Germany. They were evidently looking to turn a profit," said a police spokesman in the state of Hesse.

[cavtrooper21]

BTR 60 ping

[Burkeman1]

Off subject- but in the current issue of "Military History" magazine they have an interview with an Iranian Tank commander who fought in the big mobile tank battles against Iraq in the first two years of the war. The Iraninians had British made Chieftain tanks while the Iraqis had Russian T-72s. The Chieftain was an inferior tank according to this one Iranian tank commander.

[snippy_about_it]

I'll take mine with guns please. :-)

[cavtrooper21]

Chieftiain is a good tank, but the Iranian tanks were out of date(late 1960's/early 70's), and crew training is also a factor.
The T-72 is not a bad tank, but it has it's shortcomings, and against the US in '91 was no match against the better gunned/better armored/faster M1A1s and Challenger tanks.
Our crews are better trained than any other army in the world (including the Israelis) so the match was even worse.
Soviet equipment is not horrible, but they put quantity over quality...

[stainlessbanner]

Some assembly required?!

[snippy_about_it]

Some. hehe.

[Burkeman1]

The Iranian conscript who later became a tank company commander said he recieved very extensive training on the Chieftain before being sent into battle. He said the tank was slow and overheated constantly and was miserable in the summer. But you have a point- I doubt the Iranians had the latest model British tanks. He did say his unit was supposed to be 10 tanks strong - but in reality was never more than seven as the others were needed for spare parts or out of service at all times. He also said the Iraqis were well trained and flexible in combat. I just think our tanks are so vastly superior and the technology loaded into them simply makes these other tanks almost totally worthless.

[Oztrich Boy]

He said the tank was slow and overheated constantly and was miserable in the summer.

and a tank that is not happy is not an efficient tank.

[Burkeman1]

oops- lame grammar- sorry. Maybe I could work for the New York Times?

[henderson field]

The German army doesn't want any competition.

[oyez]

They were evidently looking to turn a profit,

Sure they were. The writer could have been thoughtful enough to include the word "illegal".

[oyez]

The German army doesn't want any competition.

Turn that puppy in the direction of France and just think of the chaos that could cause.

[cavtrooper21]

There is training on how to work in/on the tank, and how to "fight" the tank and manuver as a combined unit...
Two very different things...

[Burkeman1]

In the article the Iranian did say his training concentrated on making sure every crew member could perform the other's task and even repair the tank if need be- but he mentioned combat training not at all- maybe an oversight.

[mhking]

Just damn.

If you want on the list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...

[Blue Scourge]

Sometimes real life just takes that cake....

[Springman]

Thanks for the ping. I would love to get one, bet it would drive great in snow, but the gas mileage
would stink!!!

[archy]

Chieftiain is a good tank, but the Iranian tanks were out of date(late 1960's/early 70's), and crew training is also a factor.

The T-72 is not a bad tank, but it has it's shortcomings, and against the US in '91 was no match against the better gunned/better armored/faster M1A1s and Challenger tanks.

Chieftain's 120mm gun had the advantage of range, in the daytime at least, I'd expect. But once maneuver and moving targets became the game, the automatic loader of the T-72 and improved Iraqi T-55s retrofitted with the T-72s smoothbore gun, beat the heck out of the seperate loading ammunition of the Chieftain's 120, in which first the projectile, then a shell casing with the propelling charge had to be loaded, derived from a British naval gun, I believe.

For long-range work against still targets, when precise rangefinding and a steady position for the shot were assured, fine. For fast, fluid warfare in motion, more than a little out-of-date.

Remember that the tanks the T-72 was designed to beat were not the M1 and M1A1, but the M60A1, M60, and M48A5. And the Soviets had those T-72s fielded to their troops while the M1 was still on the drawing boards, with dreams of the cancelled *MBT-70* a tear in the designers eyes....

[archy]

BTR 60 ping

Needs a Diesel engine to replace the twin gasoline 6-cylinder truck engines of the -60 model. And the enlarged side exit doors of BTR-70, 80, and 90 models are a considerable improvement. And no guns? Fit a Kliver turret with 4 KORNET missile launch tubes and a 30mm autocannon to it; that'll cure that little problem, as per the BTR-80 below.