Will Bush survive attacks from the right?

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Friday, February 13, 2004 | William Rusher

[skip2myloo]

"not for big government but for strong government."

Hmm, that's not how I would characterize my preferred kind of government.

"A Constitutional, government accountable to the people," that's what I think the founding fathers would say -- and I agree with them.

[Caipirabob]

Hey look, I'll b*tch and moan over things I don't like, but I always thought that made me at least authentic on my personal views. For the "general good" of all people, however, I can't imagine voting for anything else but GW.

The thing is, GW knows that, too.

[Fledermaus]

This is just TOO easy! First, no offense, but you obviously don't read too much (or think you do) because you are clueless. Let's break them down: Habeas corpus is dead. That's major and significant.

First, Lincoln was the only President to actually stop Habeas corpus. We aren't even close. Second, you are again confusing the issue with WHOM the right is being denied. You, like liberals and Buchananites, think this loss applies to EVERYONE! Bull, that's just nonsense.

And in regard to suspected terrorists, only one so far, it's not denying anyone a hearing before a court to determine if their detention is lawful. One reason is the law was changed to SAY such detentions were lawful. And even in the case of Padilla, he GOT a court hearing. If anything, the Justice Dept has been too lenient in it's usage. Even John Lindh got off with a slap on the wrist when I would have tried him for treason.

We now need permission to travel. That's major and significant.

Wrong again. We don't need permission. You can get in your car right now and go anywhere you want and if don't speed, have a headlight out or break any other traffic laws, nothing will happen. Same for taking the bus, getting a taxi, etc. Oh, so you are talking about flying I'll assume. First, you had to have passport to go out the country already and you can still fly anywhere you want RIGHT NOW! (I bet you Libertarians even think passports are too much government control).

So what permission are you talking about? The fact you have to basically PROVE who you are when you fly? So the airline now has to make sure YOU are who YOU say YOU are! Oh horror!

And let's look at that complaint. It's because of your Libertarian ideals that we never thought actually profile young men from the Middle East on Visas paying cash for a one-way ticket! God forbid, that would require Big Brother breathing down our necks. Now you complain about the random checking of old ladies! While I'll give you the old lady part (you never know though - what if the terrorist know we won't check old ladies? Are you willing to bet they won't find some, pay them off, and use them to smuggle stuff onto a flight? Huh? Huh? Of course not), vigilance isn't control.

"Privacy" is now a dead issue. Bush proposed that the cable guy and the mailman and the gas company meter reader all were to become agents of the federal government.

Another canard and total paranoia. Is anyone, right now, knocking down your door? Tapping your phones? Watching what you type here? If so, wouldn't those same evil government agents in black suits be dragging you off for your nonconformity? You'd be in a cell right now along side Saddam getting anal examinations!

Oh, and Bush never "proposed" creating agents out of mailmen and meter readers. I'll bet good money your knees are badly bruised since they must jerk so bad. The "proposal" was to create a simple national HOTLINE to call in suspicious behavior. I could get into LONG explanations (like people just after 9/11 saw Arabian men taking pictures near airports and called the FBI only to be referred to local authorities that just referred them back to the FBI, etc.) but I won't. And Bush said people should be watchful.

Now, who best to be watchful than the guys that go to homes every single day? Or the truck drivers that are on the road? The DC area snipers (black Muslims but Chief Moose wanted to find white guys even in a white van because he's a racist) were found by a TRUCK DRIVER being alert. But you and the liberals think he meant actually deputizing these people. That's just not true. So you are saying that if a mailman walks up to your house to deliver the mail and sees in the open window some thug beating the crap out of you he should just move on and ignore it? Because that's what you are inferring. All Bush the TIP program was talking about was centralizing and helping the public report activity.

If you saw something tomorrow you thought could be terrorist trying something who would you call? Ghostbusters? And as I pointed out, you can call agency after agency and have to deal with some pinhead moron (of this we conservatives and libertarians agree - the liberals think they are geniuses) and get nothing done. Wouldn't a hotline to the Homeland Security Dept. be better?

I don't know what offends me more. The fact you and others actually believe this garbage you spout or the fact you don't even bother to learn the truth when it's right there at your fingertips with a simple Google and comprehension of the English language.

[Consort]

But a Kerry victory would perhaps kick the GOP in the rear and make them dump their liberals, of which Bush is one. And that positive reaction would do wonders in the long term.

You're kidding whether you know it or not.

[Fledermaus]

You are a liberal after all.

Let me see...according to you, Congress has to "declare war" but an "authorization to allow force" isn't "declaring war".

I see. Talk about a word purist.

Gee, police now can seize the property of a person suspected of carrying illegal drugs.

That's another flat out lie. Seize means take away. They can impound and the court will determine UNDER THE LAW whether or not, after conviction, the property can be sold by the state!

Stick to engineering (and I agree about the 2nd amendment and pilots or citizens with guns...but you can't be for Air Marshalls...that's more Big Brother - oh, the conflict of the Libertarian), you aren't a good lawyer.

[Fledermaus]

How could MOST states float high on dot.com money?

I can't wait to hear this one since we in Tennessee have NO big software or hardware companies pumping revenue to us.

And we don't have an income tax so I don't know how all that dot.com revenue was going to benefit us.

[optik_b]

"It’s a quandary... what CAN we -- as conservatives -- do?"

Vote in candidates who actually will be honest about the ridiculous spending that is going on and are willing to make tough choices about cutting programs instead of creating massive free drug plans and farm bill subsidies. Unfortunately almost none of those candidates exist. So keep working hard and paying those taxes! Raise your kids well too, because at the rate things are going they are going to have some huge taxes when these bills come due.

[Fledermaus]

Fine. Or New Hampshire. But are you guys going to clone yourselves? Because that's what it will take to be competitive in all those states.

And you might like to live in fantasy land, but the GOP CAN'T put conservatives, true ones, in those states I mentioned. They, like your LP folks, lose. Period. Over. Done. Can't change it unless, again, you start a breeding program and move everyone there.

But you LP's would hate that. All those big government bad people are even worse in the places you think you can win! New York, Vermont, Maine, Washington, Oregon...oh no! What to do?

Sounds like sacrifice and fighting an enemy. Can't have that, your Libertarian! To each his own! Or should I say, to each their CLONE!

[skip2myloo]

Opposed to term limits on philosophical grounds, I now believe that's the only way we can restore decency and accountability to the process.

I never thought I would see anything like CFR either -- we need to dust off that provision of the Contract With America that called for implementing term limits, and hold the GOP's feet to the fire.

[MissAmericanPie]

"Unless he does, he may win the next election at the price of presiding over the political destruction of the conservative movement."

Throw in, and the destruction of the two party system in American with the death of the Republican Party. Which angry, savvy, unrepresented conservitives will attempt to take down with them.

[section9]

Actually, this is a reasoned criticism of Bush by a Conservative who's heart is in the right place and who understands the stakes.

Quite unlike the demented ravings of the Monster Raving Paleocons.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[samtheman]

What can we do? The only thing possible. Vote Libertarian.

The only thing stupider than a Liberal is a Libertarian.

The Liberals are basically 100% wrong on every issue, which defines their stupidity.

The Libertarians (to the extent that their meager numbers actually add up in an election) can only help Liberals get elected. Which is even stupider.

Stupid is as stupid does.

[skip2myloo]

What are you smoking ??

Lincoln was the only one to suspend Habeus Corpus -- where have you been ??

Didn't you read right here on FR yesterday that U.S. citizen Jose Padilla finally is being provided an attorney, after being locked up for more than two years, denied all of his rights.

Didn't you read, that under SAMS and the Patriot Act, the government will 'supervise/monitor' the discussion between the lawyer and his client ??

Get in your car and drive across the country ??

I know you didn't mention flying because you know all about Total Information Awareness (TIA) and CAPPS II, that level of scrutiny constitutes tacit 'permission to travel.'

Drive across the country indeed. You're progress is monitored all along the way. Every toll booth records your travel, use a credit card to buy your gas, another record available without warrant under the Patriot Act, make a cell phone call, easy to track - Patriot Act requires no warrant to obtain record. There are proposals to require GPS installed in every cell phone, every call will be encoded with your precise lat/long (all in the name of 'for your safety,' of course). Got GM EnCore - you're really hosed now.

Travel through any cities with 'Red Light Cameras' that are there to "save lives?" They can all collect your tag number and feed it into that big TIA computer, along with all the other data, the Jack Booted Thugs are never more than 10 minutes away from picking you up if they want to.

Technically you're right, you don't need a permission slip to travel, yet. But today, right now - the government has in place the technology and the resources to deny your travel anytime they choose to do so.

That is, to me, you have permission to travel unless we say no.

I could go on - but your every counterpoint is flawed and naive.

You will claim I need a tin foil hat - maybe so. But, I don't intend ever to become one of the "sheeple" for which the term was invented.

[Fledermaus]

No tin foil hat necessary...you are just a loser and a nut without one.

Drive across the country indeed. You're progress is monitored all along the way. Every toll booth records your travel, use a credit card to buy your gas, another record available without warrant under the Patriot Act, make a cell phone call, easy to track - Patriot Act requires no warrant to obtain record. There are proposals to require GPS installed in every cell phone, every call will be encoded with your precise lat/long (all in the name of 'for your safety,' of course). Got GM EnCore - you're really hosed now.

And this has changed how? First, you are lying (I'm tired of allowing people like you the benefit of the doubt that you just don't know the law or can't comprehend it)...since the Patriot Act REQUIRES a JUDGE to ISSUE the warrant just like before the Act. It's that plain and that simple and NOTHING you can post will change the FACT! Get a life and quit lying.

And if you had any intelligence you'd know GPS isn't even NEEDED to track cell phones since they are RADIO TRANSMISSIONS. And the GM ONSTAR service (not EnCore you moron) is NOT MANDATED but a SERVICE you pay $14.95 a month to get!

And how can EVERY toll booth record my travel if I throw a few coins into it as I go by? Are they writing down my care make, my license and taking pictures? No. And credit card receipts have been used for YEARS! And the Patriot Act, again, DOES NOT ALLOW THE GOVERNMENT TO GET THOSE RECORDS WITHOUT A WARRANT!

Look it up if you can actually read. Like I said, no tin foil hat needed for you since you seem to be on lithium.

And if you think our travels on the road are monitored all they way you are smoking a lot better pot than I am since you are totally paranoid and stupid. I can drive anywhere WITHOUT EVEN GOING THROUGH A TOLL BOOTH or BUYING GAS all the way from Nashville to Louisville or Cincinnati and NO ONE would know I was there! And I could pay cash for a motel room and the gas and my food and leave the next day and I GUARANTEE no authority knew. You are either a total dope smoking paranoid idiot or just an idiot.

And you notice I'm not afraid to tick off the FBI agents that are, according to you, watching us as we type! Wooooooo.

[skip2myloo]

Better do some research -- you are terribly uninformed.

I won't quibble with you, I can tell you're already a lost cause.

The government is our friend, they are here to help us.

Start by looking up Statist.

[foreverfree]

bump

[The_Eaglet]

We could also ask, "Will the right survive attacks from Bush?"

[gunnedah]

Bush makes me mad as hell at times but anybody considering any Democrat in their field has to be stupid and of the Hollywood mindset.
I have thought about staying at home but I realize that is just a vote for a Democrat. I have held my nose before and I have made some terrible mistakes but I am not stupid enough not to see the disaster on the horizon if any Democrat is elected.
I don't want the WhiteHouse turned back into a WhoreHouse and a place for Ted Kennedy and Chris Dodd to make their sandwich's.
The Democrats are really dangerous and evil!