NO-GO: Bush wanted to fly in Vietnam, colonel says

Journal Now ^ | 2/14/04

[areafiftyone]

A former senior Virginia Air National Guard commander, who served with George W. Bush in the Texas Air Guard, says that Bush looked into volunteering for Vietnam combat service but was told he did not have the required flight experience.

William J. Campenni, a retired Air Guard colonel, also said that such absences as Bush's from his unit were common in the Air Guard during the period of Bush's service and still are.

He and Bush were young lieutenants and pilots in the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron of the Texas Air Guard from 1970 to 1971, Campenni said, serving under the same flight and squadron commanders, both of whom are now dead.

Campenni, 63, lives in Herndon, Va., and has participated in Republican Party politics in Northern Virginia. He retired as an Air Force pilot in 1998, last flying with the 192nd Fighter Wing based at Richmond International Airport.

According to Campenni, Bush inquired about participating in a volunteer program called Palace Alert that used Air National Guard pilots flying in the F-102 Delta Dagger interceptor jet in Vietnam.

The Air Guard advised Bush that he did not have the desired 500 hours of flight time as a pilot to qualify for Palace Alert duty, and, in any event, the program was winding down and not accepting more volunteers.

"While we were not part of the same social circle outside the base," Campenni said in a letter to The Washington Times published this week, "we were in the same fraternity of fighter pilots, and proudly wore the same squadron patch."

He said that a check of the 1970-71 records of the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron "and any other (Air National Guard) squadron" would show "other pilots excused for career obligations and conflicts."

Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard at Ellington Air Force Base in May 1968. In May 1972, records show that he received permission to perform nonflying duties in Alabama.

"(Excuses) for employment were common then and are now in the Air Guard, as pilots frequently are in career transitions, and most commanders, as I later was, are flexible in letting their charges take care of career affairs until they return or transfer to another unit near their new employment," said Campenni, who spent 33 years in the Air National Guards of three states as his career as an aerospace engineer took him around the country.

At the time that Bush went to Alabama, his unit in Houston was transitioning from an operational fighter squadron to a training squadron with a new airplane, the F-101 Voodoo. The change made it easier for the then-lieutenant to leave his Texas duties in 1972, Campenni said.

The mission switch "required that more pilots be available for full-time instructor duty rather than part-time, traditional reservists with outside employment," he said. Bush was a part-time Guard member, as most Guard airmen are.

"The winding down of the Vietnam War in 1971 provided a flood of exiting active-duty pilots for these instructor jobs, making part-timers like Lt. Bush and me somewhat superfluous," Campenni said.

"Any pilot could have left the Air Force or the Air Guard with ease after 1972 before his commitment was up," he said, "because there just wasn't room for all of them anymore."

Bush, who was working on a political campaign in Alabama, was assigned temporarily to a unit in Montgomery, Ala. Democrats have said that there is no proof that Bush showed up for Air Guard duty there.

During the Vietnam War era, many men saw joining the National Guard as a means of avoiding combat duty. American political leaders avoided mobilizing the hometown units for duty in the Southeast Asian war.

"There was one big exception to this abusive use of the Guard to avoid the draft," Campenni said, "and that was for those who wanted to fly, as pilots or crew members."

Air Guard pilot duty required up to 2 1/2 years of active-duty service for training, he said. Draftees served for two years, overwhelmingly in the Army.

Air National Guard units began flying supply missions in Vietnam in 1965, and the Air Guard was mobilized twice during the Vietnam War. Guard aviators in five squadrons flying the F-100 Super Sabre fighter-bomber were called up for duty in Vietnam in 1968.

"Avoiding service?" Campenni said. "Yeah, tell that to those guys."

Simply flying tactical military aircraft is dangerous, he said.

[areafiftyone]

This needs to be sent to every mainstream media outlet.

[mewzilla]

Isn't this a hoot? 43 can't get enough info out, and everything that comes out backs him up.

But who does the press defend? John Kerry, the master of the non-denial denial, who at present seems to be in hiding after sending his presstitute on the lam.

Go figure.

[jla]

^

[sirchtruth]

This needs to be sent to every mainstream media outlet.

They've seen this and they will ignor it...somebody doesn't want this BOGUS AWOL story to go away!!

[NutmegDevil]

In 1972, I had friends/compatriots in the RVN who were Air Force Academy grads (firm five year obligation after graduation from AFA) who were given "early outs" - even cutting short their one year commitments from the combat zone.

With RVN involvement winding down, military services manpower requirements were in a down slope. Excess pilots were allowed to leave even though they had incurred an active service obligation due to extra training if they could find a firm spot in a Guard/Reserve unit. Lesser experienced "rated" airmen in those units were pushed aside (i.e., into any available support rather than flying billets) to make room for the more experienced (often highly decorated) flyers.

[Bluntpoint]

CBS just showed, from last night's paper dump, paper work where Bush checked a box that specifically ask if he wanted to volunteer for Vietnam.

The no box was checked.

[dirtboy]

This needs to be sent to every mainstream media outlet.

This story was disproven and dead in 2000. The media doesn't care. They'll dig it up and parade it around again in 2004 and hope no one notices the stink.

[Common Tator]

Some of you are wondering why Bush is keeping the National Guard story alive by almost daily releasing new information for the media. With out new stuff the story dies. Bush is keeping it alive... Why?

Here is my take on the situation

[mewzilla]

So? Since he knew there was no room, why check it?

[areafiftyone]

Fox News is running the AWOL story like crazy. They are obsessed with it. I can't believe this.

[Bluntpoint]

Or maybe this is why Bush has not stated that he volunteered for Vietnam.

[jrlc]

Hanoi John and his top advisor discuss how to BRIDGE the bad news that their smear on Bush and the National Guard backfired:

[leadpenny]

Col Campenni's 20-minute appearance on yesterday's C-SPAN Washington Journal via RealPlayer (It is in the 3-hour segment but they have it in a separate package further down the page):

Col. William Campenni (Ret.), Air Nat'l Guard (1965-'98)

Col. William Campenni (Ret.), Air Nat'l Guard (1965-'98), discusses his service in the Texas Air National Guard with President Bush.
2/13/2004: WASHINGTON, DC: 20 min.

[Big Horn]

How long does it take to learn to fly a jet fighter? How long does it take to learn to drive a boat? I can learn to pilot most boats in a few hours. When it comes to pilot a jet fighter I would say years and then maybe never. I know it would be scary on a boat in combat, but I would prefer that to being on the ground as a grunt.

[alnick]

I would love to see hundreds (or dare I hope, thousands) of people who were in the Guard back then who have similar "absences" come forward, challenging the democrats to accuse them of being AWOL.

How about it Freepers? Anybody out there with a similar background in the NG?

[OpusatFR]

"Rove's polls must show the National Guard attacks to be counter productive or Bush would not be dignifying it by keeping it in the news with new releases every day."

Agreed. This story keeps Chris Matthews, Nora O'Donnell, and the entire CNN gang flogging a non-issue minute-by-minute, all the while dumbfounding voters who are tired of the whole thing and wondering why they are pounding on this and noticing that

not one of the left-wing is offering SOLUTIONS and the step-by-step way of solving anything.

Talked to bro in DC last night and his inside is that the democrats have ticked off an entire voting block of indys and military.

Keep it up.

[Amelia]

This needs to be sent to every mainstream media outlet.

Doesn't matter. The ones who support the President would print it (usually smaller papers in areas that tend to support President Bush anyway), the ones that doen't (large urban papers), wouldn't.

IMHO, all this focus on what Bush, Kerry, etc. did during the Vietnam era is a waste of time. I don't think most people are going to vote based on what people did 30 years ago. Clinton was elected despite his behavior during the Vietnam era.

Most of us did our share of "stupid things" when we were in our late teens and early 20s - except those of us who are still in that age range and still making the mistakes of the young. Maybe not stupid things, but things we wouldn't want people judging us on today.

Most of us who've reached middle age or older like to think we've "grown up" a bit since then. Some of us have had religious conversions since then, and would not want people thinking we are still the same person as before that experience.

I think all the candidates have enough recent history to judge them on, and going back to their youth is a waste of time at best, and could be counterproductive for most.

[bushfamfan]

Yeah, sure, but that was after he learned that he didn't have the hours and the F-102s were being phased out of service in Vietnam. Did they happen to mention that? They know the story well, but leave it to the press to show their bias. Maurice Udell, the man who trained Bush on the plane, is quoted as saying Bush asked about the Palace Alert program for service in Vietnam and was told he didn't have the hours required, so it's consistent. So the question is when that paperwork was filled out because he was told no.

[js1138]

Air Guard pilot duty required up to 2 1/2 years of active-duty service for training, he said. Draftees served for two years, overwhelmingly in the Army.

Actually if you went to Vietnam you could complete your active duty obligation in 19 months. I did it in 21.

[LibKill]

This needs to be sent to every mainstream media outlet lamebrain media toilet.

Don't thank me, I enjoy improving a post! :)

[Bluntpoint]

Well, one has to know when that paper work was filled out. They might assume it was before the event you mentioned. You assume it is afterwards.

[txrangerette]

So tell us - was the "no" box
checked when he first entered the
Guard, and later on he inquired
about flying over there & was
told "no dice", OR was the "no"
box checked while at the same
time he inquired about going?

Please - give us the exact times
for both events.

And give us more than YOUR dark
suppositions that he already knew
the answer when he asked.

You can't.

Back to DU with ya...

[Bluntpoint]

Further, service to your country is not dependant on getting to fly a jet plane or not serving.

[OpusatFR]

"I think all the candidates have enough recent history to judge them on, and going back to their youth is a waste of time at best, and could be counterproductive for most."

I see it as an attempt to damage President Bush's credibility and pre-emptive strike to curtail the testimony Kerry gave on the Hill which was a total fabrication. Truth is the best indicator of character and Kerry's truly damaging statements are an indicator of very bad character. He lied about the behavior of soldiers in Vietnam. The people who gave testimony as to their military status and involvement were lying, and Kerry did cause the NK to take renewed impetus to fight and kill our men.

[Bluntpoint]

I'm looking for intellectual honesty.

Locksteppers like yourself hurt our cause.

[Jonx6]

There is a big difference between finding a flying billet and checking a box for volunteering for any AF Lt. job in Vietnam.

[Atchafalaya]

Presstitute. I like that one.

[isthisnickcool]

I see it as an attempt to damage President Bush's credibility and pre-emptive strike to curtail the testimony Kerry gave on the Hill which was a total fabrication.

In his book "Stolen Valor" B.G. Burkett says that Kerry's speech was not "off-the-cuff" but carefully rehearsed. And the speech was actually written by a speechwriter named Adam Walinsky who had worked for Robert Kennedy. (STOLEN VALOR - page 135).

Kerry has been a freeloader most of his adult life. Like Bill Clinton, Kerry really never has had a real job like most Americans. Like Clinton, Kerry has has mooched off anyone he had the opportunity to take from. Whether it be taxpayers, lobbyists and special interests or various women of wealth.

Kerry is a punk. A womanizer and a man that would only shoot the enemy on the battlefield if the enemy was already wounded. Kerry is unfit to be president and the Democrats are in big trouble with him.

Oh, and he is one ugly f-ing dude.

[Gritty]

one has to know when that paper work was filled out

Filling out the paperwork and checking that preprinted box one time means little, except for that moment in time.

There may have been a good reason to check "NO", such as Bush had already been told he didn't qualify for the assignment. He could always change his mind and volunteer later if he met the flight qualifications or if the opportunity came up and qualifications were loosened. There would be plenty of time to change his answer.

Checking this box did not close the issue of him going to Vietnam either involuntarily or as as a "volunteer". It only prevented him from being locked into being a "perpetual volunteer", which probably made good sense for somebody who obviously had further plans for graduate schooling. He probably didn't want to take the chance of getting involuntarily selected or frozen for an assignment (because he had volunteered) while in the middle of making other life-changing decisions which might never come up again (like getting accepted at Harvard Business School).

In any event, the unit could always select him "involuntarily" if the unit was activated or even go to him again and give him another opportunity to "volunteer".

There is nothing mysterious about this. I've seen this sort of thing dozens of times. It is standard Guard/Reserve procedure. It makes good sense and is common, as Col Campenni relates.

[Triple Word Score]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40964-2004Feb13.html?referer=email

Pretty straightforward despite the incendiary headline. Do you know what it sounds like to me? It sounds like Bush got a bunch of drunk-on-duty ne'er-do-wells for supervisors in Alabama.

I've had a boss who wouldn't document it or deal with anything--he definitely didn't take care of documenting and properly filing things like promised raises, equipment rentals, invoices, personnel matters, oh, any of the other things that were HIS JOB.

[Polybius]

I know it would be scary on a boat in combat, but I would prefer that to being on the ground as a grunt.

When Kerry volunteered for swift boats, being in combat was the last thing he wanted. Kerry saw swift boats as the way to stay out of combat.

Boston Globe, 6/16/2003: ........"I didn't really want to get involved in the war," Kerry said in a little-noticed contribution to a book of Vietnam reminiscences published in 1986. "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."......... But two weeks after he arrived in Vietnam, the swift boat mission changed -- and Kerry went from having one of the safest assignments in the escalating conflict to one of the most dangerous.

[OpusatFR]

"Oh, and he is one ugly f-ing dude."

Yup. Very unattractive. He looks and acts like a jaded, condescending aristocrat.

Very French. Very King Louis...

[Amelia]

Truth is the best indicator of character and Kerry's truly damaging statements are an indicator of very bad character. He lied about the behavior of soldiers in Vietnam. The people who gave testimony as to their military status and involvement were lying, and Kerry did cause the NK to take renewed impetus to fight and kill our men.

I'm not debating any of that. I'm not disagreeing with you on those points.

I'm saying I think most voters are more likely to judge Kerry on his more recent actions than on what he did 30 years ago, and I think if people insist on going back 30 years, the press is more likely to focus on President Bush's National Guard service, drinking, etc., than on Kerry's VVAW activities.

I'm also saying that I think Kerry's recent record (flip-flops, contributions from questionable sources, etc.) contains enough information - and is more likely - to defeat him.

[OpusatFR]

Agreed. Kerry has more than enough of a damaging track record to sink him with the Indys. The base is secure and all the bruhaha is just to keep it secure in its truly irrational hatred of President Bush. But I do think all the NatGuard hype is to keep attention focused away from Kerry's post-military record which doesn't bear close scrutiny.

[yoe]

"The mission of the 147th Fighter Group and its subordinate 111th FIS, Texas ANG, and the airplane it possessed, the F-102, was air defense. It was focused on defending the continental United States from Soviet nuclear bombers. The F-102 could not drop bombs and would have been useless in Vietnam. A pilot program using ANG volunteer pilots in F-102s (called Palace Alert) was scrapped quickly after the airplane proved to be unsuitable to the war effort. Ironically, Lt. Bush did inquire about this program but was advised by an ANG supervisor (Maj. Maurice Udell, retired) that he did not have the desired experience (500 hours) at the time and that the program was winding down and not accepting more volunteers.

[Amelia]

I do think all the NatGuard hype is to keep attention focused away from Kerry's post-military record which doesn't bear close scrutiny.

Well, yeah...and the WH keeps releasing more info, which keeps the NG stuff in the news.

Maybe they have a grand strategy to get it over with now, then focus on Kerry later. Or maybe not.

[Pikachu_Dad]

Interesting point.

So how many flight hours DID Bush have at the time?

They probably kept very good records on his flight hours. So this would be a key bit of information to get out there.

[RedWing9]

Campenni, 63, lives in Herndon, Va., and has participated in Republican Party politics in Northern Virginia.

Funny how they put this here when they ignore the politics of those accusing Bush of not being there...

[txrangerette]

You are not intellectually honest.

You troll with dark suppositions
to undermine/hurt Bush.

Honesty would be to: Learn the
truth about when & why the two
events occured & share it; say
you don't know & reserve your
semi-conclusions 'til you do;
give Bush & the man telling us
this story the clear benefit of
doubt(as I do); OR...

Admit your malice aforethought
against Bush and really go for
it.

Other posters make my point re
the timing of these events. So
I'm in ok company, insult or no.

[Bluntpoint]

Oh, get a grip!

I reported the box was checked and you go hog wild to attach some sort of malice to such observation.

The Dems have driven you crazy.

[txrangerette]

The number IS recorded, and it
was significantly fewer than the
500 hrs required. Can't quote it.

Here's the ugly deal, tho...one
poster has implied that Bush knew
he couldn't go but asked anyway -
I guess to fool the records for
posterity. What else???

At least, that's what I got from
the insinuations. Murky stuff...

[txrangerette]

Sorry, don't buy your faux rant.

[Bluntpoint]

Rant?

Your funny!

Here is my original post that you read malice into:

"CBS just showed, from last night's paper dump, paper work where Bush checked a box that specifically ask if he wanted to volunteer for Vietnam.

The no box was checked."


No editorializing on my part. Just reported what was on the news this morning.

I'm thinking you might be a "Moby" plant to make us all seem like knee-jerk crazies on this board.

[Cicero]

IMHO, all this focus on what Bush, Kerry, etc. did during the Vietnam era is a waste of time. I don't think most people are going to vote based on what people did 30 years ago.

Normally, this would be true. And in Bush's case it's true. The whole Vietnam issue, however, has been raised EVERY DAY by Kerry and the lamestream press. Kerry's MAIN CLAIM to being elected appears to be that he is a military hero. That's what he is running on. Therefore, his conduct in the peace marches and the Jane Fonda days becomes exceedingly relevant, as does the nature of his "heroism." If he's going to run on it, then it's a legitimate issue.

The clinton business was a whole other kettle of fish. I would consider voting for someone who bugged out for Canada forty years ago if his life had changed since then, just as I would vote for a party drinker like Bush who changed his ways. But clinton didn't just honestly bug out and admit it. He lied and cheated, and he kept on lying and cheating, during the campaign and for eight years in the White House. That's why his youthful behavior is still significant--because he has never grown up.

[Triple Word Score]

I think you're misunderstanding Bluntpoint.

[diotima]

Did you write that? You should put that up as its own thread.

[Right_in_Virginia]

BTTT

[Bluntpoint]

I think you're misunderstanding Bluntpoint.

Do ya think?

I'm afraid if I reported that I heard on the news today that it might rain, this guy would say I have a vendetta against sunny days.