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To: Jhoffa_
I agree with Boortz on this account, btw. I know it's not a popular point of view, but that's the way our free market works. To say anything less is to say that someone, somewhere is "owed" a job.

The problem with super-capitalists is that they refuse to see the symbiotic relationship between the employer and employee. They think the employer is more important by an order of magnitude than the employee.

223 posted on 02/18/2004 7:50:48 AM PST by raybbr (My 1.4 cents - It used to be 2 cents, but after taxes - you get the idea.)
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To: raybbr
You'd think super-capitalists would understand that labor/skills are just another commodity to be bought and sold at market prices...

Hmmm... Perhaps they do, and those selling their labor/skills don't understand this and think that their "product" is somehow special and outside the laws of the market.

229 posted on 02/18/2004 7:54:19 AM PST by MrB
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To: raybbr
They think the employer is more important by an order of magnitude than the employee.

No. They think the employer owns the property the employee is using and so has an inalienable moral right to think the employee is worthless. Whether that thought is correct or is stupid is another matter entirely.

I fully support your right to stupid values, and will vote against anyone who wants to impose on you a symbiotic relationship you don't want.

234 posted on 02/18/2004 7:58:53 AM PST by Taliesan
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To: raybbr

IMO, they are.. by several orders of magnitude.

Business owners are a wonderful thing. They provide an opportunity for people to buy houses, feed their families, go on trips, etc, etc, etc.. PLUS, they pay taxes to finance projects, etc, on and on.. There's no need to drive this into the ground. Of course you realize this.

They are much more important in the big scheme of things.

The reason they are more important is simple: They can't get rich on their own. They have to have help and then many people prosper, to varying degrees, right along with them.

That means opportunity and I think that's a good deal for everyone involved.

When they aren't providing these opprotunities however, then they lose my sympathy. Because the only reason I should care about Bill Gates being wealthy is because he is providing jobs & helping people.

Likewise, the only reason Gates should care about me is because I might have skills that can help him become richer.

It's completely fair and it's mutually beneficial, provided both sides bring something to the table.

237 posted on 02/18/2004 8:00:23 AM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: raybbr
As a PS to my post above:

I guess my only problem with the "super-capitalists" as you call them, is the arrogance of expecting me to cheer them when they bring little or nothing to the table.

As I said, I cheer Gates because he can't get rich alone.. The fact that he can't means there's opportunitiy created through his business dealings.

If he could, I certainly have no reason to cheer, support or vote with him.

I mean, why would I? Why the hell should I care?

249 posted on 02/18/2004 8:11:32 AM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: raybbr
The problem with super-capitalists is that they refuse to see the symbiotic relationship between the employer and employee. They think the employer is more important by an order of magnitude than the employee.

Your "symbiotic relationship" thesis sounds strikingly familiar: Marx said the same thing.

What undermines your position is that anyone can be a capitalist in a free market system...a fact that Marx was either too ignorant or too angry and envious to understand.

270 posted on 02/18/2004 8:37:59 AM PST by eleni121 (Preempt and Prevent)
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