Yishai calls for Gibson's Jesus film to be banned in Israel

Shas chairman MK Eli Yishai on Wednesday called for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" movie to be banned from Israeli cinemas, calling it a blood libel.

In the U.S., the Anti-Defamation League issued a statement saying that the film "repeats all of the stereotypes and myths surrounding the death of Jesus that have accompanied anti-Semitism for the last 2,000 years. Regretfully, Gibson refused all of our attempts for a dialogue aimed at preventing this harm to Jews."

ADL National Director Abraham Foxman said he was troubled by Gibson's claim of historical accuracy. "He made his choice," Foxman told a news conference after viewing the film. "And it's to blame the Jews."

"The Passion," which depicts in gruesome detail the final hours of the life of Jesus, premiered in the U.S. and other countries Wednesday, but not in Israel.

Jewish and other religious groups in Manhattan planned protests for Wednesday. Amcha, The Coalition for Jewish Concerns, planned to wear concentration camp uniforms at a New York theater to link the film's portrayal of Jews to the sort of hate that led to the Nazi Holocaust.

"The whole thing is a blood libel," said Yishai, from the ultra-Orthodox Shas party, using a term that refers to a medieval slur that Jews used the blood of Christians to make unleavened bread for the Passover festival.

However, it appeared unlikely that the film would be banned. Few films have been barred in recent years, and the ones to be forbidden are usually pornographic. The Israeli film board, which makes these decisions, could not be reached for comment.

Yishai said the belief that the Jews had killed Jesus had led to "millions" of Jews being killed and persecuted in the last two millennia.

"This libel used to spread by word of mouth. Now the media are spreading it," Yishai told AP. "We should not accept this."

Yishai said he had also appealed to the Foreign Ministry to try to encourage other governments to bar the film.

Jewish leaders have said that the movie gives a harsh portrayal of Jews and blames them for death of Jesus. They have warned it could lead to a rise in anti-Semitism. Gibson, who also funded and co-scripted the film, denies that charge.

New York Cardinal Edward Egan, meanwhile, wrote to parishes to stress Jews were not responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus.

"He gave His Life for us," Egan wrote in a column to appear in next month's issue of Catholic New York. "No one took it from Him. This is, and has always been, Catholic doctrine.

You can not tell me that most Jews would not want all people to believe what they believe. The whole of the OT speaks of the Jews being a LIGHT TO THE GENTILES!.

It is also a human fact, regarding the EGO of all men that most folks get along with those that agree with them and feel uncomfortable with those who don't.

You can make condescending statements about my "ignorance" all you want, but I suspect it is you who live in a state of denial. Bigots exist in all cultural and religious groups. Read the story of Jonah, the Hebrew prophet, who was commanded to go preach to the gentile nation of Nineveh and refused. Read how he was swallowed by the "great fish", then repented and was returned to dry land to preach to Nineveh. Read about how God confronted Jonah regarding his attitude towards the 90,000 souls spared by God's wrath.
("you are upset regarding this gourd but not about the 90,000 souls who would have been destroyed?)

Christ said of the generation that he lived in..."It is an evil generation that seeks after a sign, there-fore the only sign to be given this generation...is the sign of Jonah!" Christ went on to be killed, buried in the ground for three days and three nights and rose again.

The great Jewish teacher Gamaliel(40 AD?) said of the Christians, "leave them alone, if what they are doing is of God, it will last, if not it will fail. You do not want to be found fighting against God!"

In using the term "Spiritually Aboriginal", I was not trying to convey any connotation or suggestion of the Nation or Faith's spiritual unsophistication or my disrespect for it in any way whatsoever.

For in fact, I am convinced that neither is the case at all.

To the contrary; by "Primal" I meant to defer to the spiritual primacy, or seniority, of the Nation of Israel in it's unique relationship to our Creator and it's pivotal role in Global History.

Your "Roots", spiritually speaking, were well established Millenia before the institution of "Christianity" ever even saw the light of day as a tender bud somewhere around the Sea of Galillee.

Now I'm admittedly pretty rusty on my Bible these days, having sort of fallen off of the Chariot a few miles back -
But I retain the strong sense that this "Branch" relationship between the Followers of Yeshua and the Nation of Israel is supposed to be a strong, eternal, and loyal familial one.

And as Gentiles reconciled to G-d via Grace, we are not supposed to forget it, either.

As to the commentary on "Conversion" vs. "Completion";
Thanks for your insight; I stand edified.
Could this be one of those cases of "alternative definitions", I wonder?

Sort of like a certain religious institution that is known as "The One True Church" by it's adherants, while other terms may be used by some people on the other side of the stained glass.

Apparently, the term "enemy of G-d" might be one of them.

Can these both be accurate descriptives of the same institution?

It seems that we have seen both of them right here on this topic, haven't we?

Who is "Right"? Which is "Wrong"?

Both?

Either?

After about 1700 years, we're still trying to thrash that definitional issue out, aren't we?

So does a Jew "Convert" or "Complete" upon acceptance of Yeshua as Messiah and Savior/Adonai?

I guess (Not being much of an "authority" on these things, really), that it may be a matter of theological perspective.

Which one of us is "Right" (assuming that we can't both be)?

The simple answer from Maine is; "I Dunno!"

But here's one thing, in all due respect, that I DO know with confidence;

Our mutual Creator is, and will always be, "Right".

He always has been, every single time, hasn't He?

Shalom - UJ

Certainly! And thank you for the calming words. Insult was not my intent toward anyone willing to engage thoughtful debate on this subject. But, I have started to take the attacks on Gibson personally as attacks on me; both as secular advocate of ethics, and a Christian advocate of righteousness. Yet in none of my metaphysical manifestations of 'self,' does initiated violence have legitimacy. So when someone continues to express a fear of me as such, I begin to take personal offense. Even so, my defensive rebuttals will remain verbally profound, if not somewhat profane... at least until such time as physical violence is manifest. And at that point, regardless of the source, my fists will be wielded in defense of that which is right, even against those who claim solidarity. That should be understood here as profoundly as the story itself. The era of passion plays and blood-libel was ages past and a world away. America is NOT Europe, and Hate-filled Leftists Anti's notwithstanding, the people of this nation have no tolerance for intolerance. Any place where a hand is raised against our Jewish brethren, be they Islamacists, Pagans, Eurotrash, Moonbat Leftists, or even fringe so-called Christians... The fist of righteous will be turned upon the attackers ten-fold.

The story of the Passion far surpasses religion, ethnicity, nationality and individual personalities. Christ's ordeal should be a warning to humanity of what happens when popular opinion, fed by irrational rhetoric and lies, fuel fear churned into violence and madness turned against anybody; whether they be a group like the Templars (ca. 1307), individuals like Galileo, a sect like the Mormons (ca. 1820), a people like the Jews (ca.1939), honorable leaders like George W. Bush, or a courageous story teller like Mel Gibson.

I suggest that it is no coincidence that Christ's story has initiated the same 'passions' as it always has. And it is not the fault of the story, nor it's story teller. The blame lies solely with the heathens and their useful fools.

Excellent thread and great comments, everyone.

I apologize for being so harsh, but inferences that Judaism is somehow evangelical are insulting to me. I don't mean to sound condescending, but the notion is offensive, because so many servants of darkness accuse us of trying to take over the world.

When was the last time Jews showed up at your door with tracts, trying to convert you to Judaism?

Being "a light unto the nations" is not a conquer-the-world strategy, conspiracy theorists notwithstanding. Being "chosen" does not mean "superior", even a casual glance at the history of the Jews shows us to be quite masterful at offending God and breaking every covenant with Him.

Your response doesn't address the point I objected to: your suggestion that Jews want everyone else to be Jews. Its not true.

If you don't believe me, try converting to Judaism, and see how easy it is.

To summarize: Judaism is NOT an evangelical religion. We are NOT trying to make everyone in the world a Jew, and have NO desire to do so. Judaism is NOT for everyone.

We DON'T believe you are going to Hell for not being Jews. We DON'T know what happens to people when they die, so we don't claim to know. I wish certain other religions could be so enlightened, and give God a little credit.

I am, again, sorry to be so snippy (even the tone of this post is more strident than I would like), but if you follow my posts in this thread, you'll see that I've spent most of my posts addressing lies about Judaism. It gets old, I get impatient at times. It never ends.

If I spread lies about Christianity, saying things like "Jesus said it was okay for Christians to kill non-Christians" and "Christianity teaches that non-Christians aren't really people", how would you feel?

I know you didn't say such things, but when you make false statements about Judaism, even (and perhaps especially) generalized statements, you are casting your lot with people like Guillermo, who do (see above).

I pray that my weakness and frustration does not drive you to join him.

For what it's worth, here's a Jew who respects and admires the teachings of Jesus but does not worship him, and who sincerely believes this:

That which leads you to God is good. That which leads you away from God is bad.

I talk to God, and hope you do, too. Anyone who does knows that God is much nicer than typically portrayed.

If God weren't nice, we would have been utterly destroyed a very long time ago.

Jews are God's "problem children", but He still loves us, despite (and perhaps because of) our many failings and shortcomings. The Torah records how rotten we can be, for all the world to see.

I think the point regarding Jews is this: if God can love the Jews, He can love anyone.

Shalom aleichem.

"What are you, a Karaite?"

Ouch!

Well, actually the slams on Rabbinical Judaism do sound somewhat familiar. I'm not a Karaite myself, but I can understand (and thus not condemn) the impulse to cleave to the Torah, and be suspicious of the opinions of others, even (and perhaps especially ;^) those of great rabbis.

But suspicion need not be rejection. I have yet to meet a rabbi who was never wrong, nor any who have claimed to be. I have also yet to meet a rabbi who did not understand the Torah much better than I do.

To reject the Talmud because it is not the Torah seems unnecessarily dismissive to me. It is an incredible treasure of tremendous wisdom, compiled by men who dedicated their lives to studying the Torah. It is the written expression of the oral tradition of the Jewish people. How can it not be impressive?

Nonetheless, when I see the book of opinions that is the Talmud referred to (by those who don't know what it is) as "Judaism's holiest book", I have to chuckle.

How many unanimous opinions are contained in the Talmud? And is it the Talmud we read in shul on Shabbat?

Disclaimer: Please include the phrase "In my opinion" at the beginning of all sentences which follow. There are many good and observant Jews who will take issue with some or all of what I have to say, as is their right and prerogative. I speak for myself.

The history of modern Rabbinical Judaism is rooted in the destruction of the Temple. There are a great many mitzvahs we cannot make because of the loss of the Temple.

Rabbinical Judaism is the bridge which sustains us until the Temple is rebuilt.

Some Jews believe we need never rebuild the Temple. Others, like myself, consider it inevitable that it will be rebuilt.

Some Jews don't believe a Messiah will come, but many do. For my part, I suspect one will come.

If it happens that the Messiah that comes and brings peace to the world is Jesus (on a second pass), great! If not, I won't say "I told you so."

As for the politics of the Temple in Israel today, it is definitely a thorny issue, what with the Waqf and the mosques and all. I can't blame those Israelis who just want the whole thing to go away. But it has been a very long time since life was easy in Israel, for good or ill.

As for atonement and sacrifice, that's a bit more complicated, and opinions vary greatly.

For my part, and please be assured that I speak as me personally (in all matters, really), I think it's important to understand that (again, as I understand it) the Heaven/Hell dichotomy regarding "life after death" is not as harsh in Judaism as in Christianity. We seek God's favor, but not (at least in my case) from fear, more from a desire to please He who is holy and esteemed above all else, our King.

We love God. He loves us.

I know that God is fair, that God knows me through and through (far better than I could possibly know myself), that God loves me, that God is not cruel (though it may seem that way sometimes), and does not seek to harm me.

Whatever my fate may be, it will be as God wills it, which is as it should be. I desire nothing more.

I wrote:
"What are you, a Karaite?"
Imal responded
Ouch!
I did not mean that as an insult. Although I was raised as a Reform Rabbinate Jew, I have some Karaite (Galicianer Karaite, Kavar Karaite, and Karaylar) ancenstry. It was not intended as an insult. Frankly, were I predisposed towards observance and if there were a Karaite community in New York, I would probably check it out. I am both tempermentally and ideologically at odds with many of the presumptions of Orthodox Judaism.

Nonetheless, when I see the book of opinions that is the Talmud referred to (by those who don't know what it is) as "Judaism's holiest book", I have to chuckle.
The religious diversity of Jews and the importance of various texts is complex. Those without a proper background are clueless.

How many unanimous opinions are contained in the Talmud? And is it the Talmud we read in shul on Shabbat?
I doub't that some of the more odious posters have ever set foot in a Shul.

My point was not meant to be a generalization as to how all Jews feel, but to point out a fact of human nature. People feel more unconfortable with those who have different ideas about God and life and would rther there be agreement then disagreement. Mature people recognize that not all people can agree so they strive for at least tolerance(not the type of tolerance the Gay libs talk about), if not a healthy respect for those who are in disagreement.

My main objection is with those who are dishonest with themselves regarding their own bigotry regarding Christians while preaching to Christians that they should not be bigots. I half expect Foxman to cry out(regarding Mel Gibson) "crucify him!"

As for evangelism in the Jewish sense, I think the book of Jonah pretty well spells out what God's purpose was for Israel and her priests and prophets. (Jonah was indeed a MISSIONARY sent to preach God's warnings of doom lest Nineveh repented!)

It is just that by Israel's own stregnth she ultimately couldn't live up to God's covenant with her, signaling the need for a more righteous living covenant...in which God's laws would be written on hearts of flesh(a rewoking of a man's internal instincts, character and drive, a regeneration of the inner man by the indwelling of Gods Spirit) and tablets of stone.

The animal sacrifices weren't enough to cleanse sin(only cover the national sins for a year), God's own signature thumbprint pressed into matter, his only CONCEIVED son(by the Holy spirit), would be that final sacrifice for us. Christ had no sin and did not deserve to die; his death violated a fundamental law of the universe, only the sinful deserve death. In that he defeated sin and death for all men, by the power of his shed blood and his resurrection.

By God, Moses wrought a great miracle by walking through the parted Red Sea. But consider the greater miracle, the son of God walking ON THE WATER! I know for you, you don't believe in Christ, so you might not catch the significance of that comparison. But for me, it represents an advancement of faith, a further reaching for man by God, a longing to bring all men closer to Himself.

Moses was punished for not "speaking to the rock" for water, instead striking the rock in anger. The water gushed forth, but the lesson God was trying to teach Moses was learned too late. It was spoken faith not merely actions that would cause God to act. Christ spoke the water into wine, with out striking the pots with a stick. He healed the sick, merely by watching what the Father did, not with smoke and lightnings. And to signify to his generation who he truly was, he gave them the sign of Jonah,not the thunderings of 10,000 angels with trumpets and a heavenly crown placed on his head! Christ was God in Flesh, sent not at that time to conquer Satan thru dramatic George Lucas style special effects acts, but to lay down his life for us, to signify the Father's willingness to punish himself in our place. Christ was the very heart of God poured out for us, the only weakness the Godhead had ever exposed for us and to the temptations and torture from Satan himself. If Christ, God in flesh failed, the whole Godhead itself would have failed. The enormity of that failure are pertubations only God could comprehend.

Ezekiel spoke of the wheel full of eyes and of the Servant, who went every where the wheel of eyes went. This is a vision of the unique unity and oneness between the Father and the Son. They are one in every way!

My point was not meant to be a generalization as to how all Jews feel, but to point out a fact of human nature. People feel more unconfortable with those who have different ideas about God and life and would rther there be agreement then disagreement. Mature people recognize that not all people can agree so they strive for at least tolerance(not the type of tolerance the Gay libs talk about), if not a healthy respect for those who are in disagreement.

My main objection is with those who are dishonest with themselves regarding their own bigotry regarding Christians while preaching to Christians that they should not be bigots. I half expect Foxman to cry out(regarding Mel Gibson) "crucify him!"

As for evangelism in the Jewish sense, I think the book of Jonah pretty well spells out what God's purpose was for Israel and her priests and prophets. (Jonah was indeed a MISSIONARY sent to preach God's warnings of doom lest Nineveh repented!)

It is just that by Israel's own stregnth she ultimately couldn't live up to God's covenant with her, signaling the need for a more righteous living covenant...in which God's laws would be written on hearts of flesh(a rewoking of a man's internal instincts, character and drive, a regeneration of the inner man by the indwelling of God's Spirit) and tablets of stone.

The animal sacrifices weren't enough to cleanse sin(only cover the national sins for a year), God's own signature thumbprint pressed into matter, his only CONCEIVED son(by the Holy spirit), would be that final sacrifice for us. Christ had no sin and did not deserve to die; his death violated a fundamental law of the universe, only the sinful deserve death. In that he defeated sin and death for all men, by the power of his shed blood and his resurrection.

By God, Moses wrought a great miracle by walking through the parted Red Sea. But consider the greater miracle, the son of God walking ON THE WATER! I know for you, you don't believe in Christ, so you might not catch the significance of that comparison. But for me, it represents an advancement of faith, a further reaching out to man by God, a longing to bring all men closer to Himself.

Moses was punished for not "speaking to the rock" for water, instead striking the rock in anger. The water gushed forth, but the lesson God was trying to teach Moses was learned too late. It was spoken faith not merely actions that would cause God to act. Christ spoke the water into wine, with out striking the pots with a stick. He healed the sick, merely by watching what the Father did, not with smoke and lightnings. And to signify to his generation who he truly was, he gave them the sign of Jonah,not the thunderings of 10,000 angels with trumpets and a heavenly crown placed on his head! Christ was God in Flesh, sent not at that time to conquer Satan thru dramatic George Lucas style special effects acts, but to lay down his life for us, to signify the Father's willingness to punish himself in our place. Christ was the very heart of God poured out for us, the only weakness the Godhead had ever exposed for us and to the temptations and torture from Satan himself. If Christ, God in flesh failed, the whole Godhead itself would have failed. The enormity of that failure held pertubations only God could comprehend.

Ezekiel spoke of the wheel full of eyes and of the Servant, who went every where the wheel of eyes went. This is a vision of the unique unity and oneness between the Father and the Son. They are one in every way!

Mr. Atos,

Not to beat a dead horse, but please remember that this thread is about showing the movie in Israel.

I quite agree with you that the era of passion plays and blood-libel was ages past and a world away," and that "America is NOT Europe, and ... the people of this nation have no tolerance for intolerance."

Israel, unfortunately, is at the crucible of anti-Semitism. Please remember that Yishai (at least to my knowledge) is not trying to limit the showing of the movie in the United States or, indeed, in any country other than Israel.

Also, please remember that Abe Foxman does have personal experience with the sort of anti-Semitism that has never been shared in the US except by the most fringe elements. I don't think he is worried about a pogrom in the Paramus Mall. Instead, I think he is concerned that Muslims in Europe and Asia will use the movie to sow anti-Jewish and anti-Israel feeling in their own countries.

If this thread were about censorship in the US, my own reaction, at least, would be much more impatient and much less understanding.

The Jewish daily morning prayer service contains the following prayer (Artscroll translation):

"Master of the worlds, You commanded us to bring the ocntinual offering at its set time, and that the Kohanim be at their assigned service, the Levites on their platform, and the Israelites at their station. But now, through our sins, the Holy Temple is destroyed, the continual offering is discontinued and we have neither Kohen at his service, nor Levite on his platform, nor Israelite at his station. But You said: 'Let our lips compensate for the bulls' -- therefore may it be Your will, Hashem, our G-d and the G-d of our forefathers, that the prayer of our lips be worthy, acceptable and favorable before You, as if we had brought the continual offering at its set time and we had stood at its station."

Orthodox Jews fervently wish that the Temple be rebuilt. However, they do not feel that their prayer service is inadequate due to its destruction. In fact, the holy ark was not even in the second Temple, having been moved for "safekeeping" after the first Temple was destroyed.

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