Gay unions accepted as routine in cultures for centuries

Salt Lake City Tribune ^ | Feb 29, 2004 | Will Bagley

[happygrl]

Read The Closed Circle; An Interpretation of the Arabs by David Pryce-Jones, the essential work on this culture.

I've lived in Libya, other FReepers have some experience in other ME Countries. There is a lot of homosexuality in Arab culture. Arab culture preceded the Qu'ran. It is a very complex issue and certainly is related to the mixed message that Arab men get about women. Google and you'll also find a wealth of articles on this issue. It has nothing to do with terrorism, but a lot to do with the isolating of men from women that occurs in in Arab culture.

[george wythe]

I've lived in Libya, other FReepers have some experience in other ME Countries. There is a lot of homosexuality in Arab culture. Arab culture preceded the Qu'ran. It is a very complex issue and certainly is related to the mixed message that Arab men get about women.

Thanks for posting your outlook about the Middle East on this issue. I've never even visited the Middle East, so all I know is what I've read from other visitors.

[webstersII]

"Is Brigham Young still in a polygamist marriage to his 56 wives, or is he united to only one of them in the Mormon
afterlife?"

Yes.

And not only that, there are many (dozens, perhaps? no one knows for sure) other women since his death who have married him in absentia, expecting to be united with him in the afterlife.

[King Prout]

Prof Bagley: Homosexual unions have been accepted as commonplace by many cultures for centuries

Triumph: Maybe it has been... by the Bungolian tribes living on Uranus!

[webstersII]

"In my opinion, I have seen way to much suffering from homosexuals to believe it's a choice. Why would someone choose a homosexual lifestyle, knowing the incredible array of problems facing them? "

That is a simplistic association.
You could just as easily state it like this: "In my opinion, I have seen way to much suffering from drug addicts to believe it's a choice. Why would someone choose a drug addict's lifestyle, knowing the incredible array of problems facing them?

People do all sorts of illogical things. Look at all the women who stay with abusive boyfriends and husbands. They do so out of choice even though there is alot of suffering involved.

[george wythe]

there are many (dozens, perhaps? no one knows for sure) other women since his death who have married him in absentia, expecting to be united with him in the afterlife.

Are those in-absentia marriages to Brigham Young performed by the mainstream LDS or some of the breakaway sects?

[george wythe]

the Bungolian tribes living on Uranus!.

I have no intention of ever visiting that planet :-)

[Servant of the 9]

Over 130 different Native American tribes had a special category of men who wore women's clothing, spent their time doing "women's work" such as basket weaving and pottery, and held a sacred, spiritual role in the tribe.

We have a special term for them too 'Drag Queen'

So9

[King Prout]

"You could just as easily state it like this: "In my opinion, I have seen way to much suffering from drug addicts to believe it's a choice. Why would someone choose a drug addict's lifestyle, knowing the incredible array of problems facing them?""

Bingo. Nice way of deflating that particular blow-up decoy.

[King Prout]

c'mere, Laz - you will have fun with this one.

[george wythe]

African-American berdache?

[Joe Republc]

..The Victorians turned it into an identity, but same-sex sex has been going on since time immemorial and was considered entirely natural in ancient Greece and Rome.
Yes, and where are those cultures now?..."

Ahhhh, the good old days. I seem to remember they also had slavery, second-class status for women, child sex slaves, and other stuff that the prudish West has since moved away from in its narrow-mindedness.

-- Joe

[King Prout]

but... why did the missionaries name 'em "beard aches"?

[Lazamataz]

In my opinion, I have seen way to much suffering from drug addicts to believe it's a choice. Why would someone choose a drug addict's lifestyle, knowing the incredible array of problems facing them?

I can speak to this issue.

When you are not yet addicted, drugs are a LOT of fun.

But when you become addicted, you no longer have a choice. You must do drugs. Consequences no longer matter. Jail, divorce, financial destitution -- none of them deter you.

Now, there is a way out: If you surrender your drug addiction to your Higher Power -- that is, if you realize that you CANNOT FIGHT the addiction, that there is NO WAY for you to beat it -- and if you call on your Higher Power (in my case, G-d) to fight the battle for you, and instead concentrate on using the tools of NA to stay clean JUST THAT MOMENT -- you can beat drug addiction. I have seen countless hundreds of recovering addicts with 13, 17, 25 years clean.

But I digress. The main point is, once addicted, you no longer consider consequences. The only important thing is to get drugs.

[george wythe]

why did the missionaries name 'em "beard aches"?

After waking up from a drunken stupor, the men realized that their dates were growing a beard???

[King Prout]

yes, now apply that reasoning to the quibble about homosexuality as choice.

the parallell, in potential at least, is evident.

[webstersII]

"Are those in-absentia marriages to Brigham Young performed by the mainstream LDS or some of the breakaway
sects?"

I can't say for certain. I spent some time there in the mid-80's and I'm pretty sure that there were women who would get married to Joseph in the LDS Tabernacle but don't quote me on it.

[Lazamataz]

Well, you might have something there.

Me, I'm gonna write another parody song denigrating faygs. :o)

[webstersII]

"But when you become addicted, you no longer have a choice. You must do drugs. Consequences no longer
matter. Jail, divorce, financial destitution -- none of them deter you."

True. But some people do quit. Others do not.

You can't remove the aspect of desire from this argument. Desire to overcome an addiction has to be paramount before anyone can overcome it. You can't characterize it solely as a biological experience, or else you never would have been able to overcome your addiction, Laz.

[kanawa]

Why would someone choose a homosexual lifestyle, knowing the incredible array of problems facing them?

Ego's attempted answer to a pre-existing 'incredible array of problems'.