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To: af_vet_1981
Our post/counterposts have revolved around a few issues...

1. Should Gibson have condemned his father publicly? I say no, and you say yes. We have been through that a few times, and I think you know why from a moral perspective I feel that is unacceptable.

2. Is Holocaust denial/revisionism a sin? You say it always is. I say that it is ignorance and stupdity but not a sin. Lack of knowledge or facts or an unconscious error cannot be a sin. A just God would not deem it so. But when this denial is made consciously to trivialize the suffering of the Jews, then it does rise to the level of sin.

You say that our difference here is because we don't read from the same book. Well, I have read your Book, too, and while I am no scholar, it seems to me that God is not unjust and would not condemn a man for mere ignorance of the facts.

3. You say that you do not accept the premises of Islam. That's fine. But you do understand that the fundamental premise of Islam is that there is one supreme deity who created the universe and sent prophets to be his signs?

Do you disagree with that as a Jew?

Another fundamental premise is that all men are brothers and equal in the eyes of God, separated by the good they do in the time alotted. Is this not a premise of the Old Testament which describes Man as the sons of Adam to be judged for their deeds.

4. Finally, you close by saying "If you are a friend to Israel and the Jewish people I will call you sadiqi".

First, I do not choose nations for friends, I choose men and women, be they Christian, Muslim, or Jew. Second, in Arabic, "sadiq" means truthful. I would not be truthful if I told you that I am a friend to the modern state of Israel. My sympathies are obviously on the other side of that one. But that does not mean I would tolerate malignant injustice towards a Jew-- or anyone else.

It certainly does not mean that I could glory in the murder of innocents, even enemy innocents, whose lives are claimed by murderering beasts who dare to fly the banner of my ancient fathers.

So, maybe I'm not a friend to Israel, but I'm a pretty good friend and business partner to many American Jews.

1,216 posted on 03/07/2004 11:37:38 PM PST by Hamza01
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To: Hamza01
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1,233 posted on 03/08/2004 7:02:52 PM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: Hamza01
Well that did not work. It is easier to type Saadiq and Sadeeq in Arabic rather than try to phoneticize them but the fonts that appear on my PC do not transfer through the server.

Thank you for being Saadiq with me. That is the first step to being a Sadeeq. Holocaust Denial is not always a sin. What does a child know ? There is ignorance and there is willful, malicious ignorance. On that point we agree. I have fond memories of Moslems who were kind to me. I have some other memories also but I am alive and unharmed.

As for the fundamental precept of Islam, I take that to be alShehadeh which I can never accept as true. There is one G-d and he delights in all who perform justice tempered with mercy.

Try to keep an open mind and heart toward Israel.

Alf Shukr for sharing.

1,235 posted on 03/08/2004 7:10:22 PM PST by af_vet_1981
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