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To: MissAmericanPie
Hitler and his movement were definitely out to eliminate both Jewish and Christian influence in the "Greater German State" = Europe + as much of the rest of the world as they could grab. However, they received enthusiastic cooperation in their stage 1 plan to eliminate the jews from large populations of European Christians who had been indoctrinated in hatred of the jews for many centuries.

A good place to begin facing up to this is the book "Neighbors" by Jan Gross:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0142002402/qid=1078480235/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-0754165-0672806?v=glance&s=books

"One day, in July 1941, half of the population of a small east European town murdered the other half--some 1,600 men, women and children." This short sentence summarizes the subject of Neighbors, historian Jan Gross's account of a massacre that occurred in Jedwabne, in northeastern Poland. Gross describes the atrocities of Jedwabne in almost unbearable detail. Men and women were hacked to death with knives, iron hooks, and axes. Small children were thrown with pitchforks onto a bonfire. A woman's decapitated head was kicked like a football. Historians before now have blamed the massacre on the Nazis--whose participation in and responsibility for these crimes has been exaggerated, Gross says. In fact, he argues, a virulent Polish anti-Semitism was liberated by German occupation. Instead of explaining the horrors of Jedwabne, which would be impossible, Neighbors sets the record straight as to the identity of the criminals. In doing so, Gross has ensured that future histories of the Holocaust, particularly in Poland, will be more honest, because future historians will be answerable to his argument that the evil of the Nazis was not only forced on the Poles. In places such as Jedwabne, it was welcomed by them.

The most balanced response I've seen to the movie is this intresting essay by Dennis Prager:

Mel Gibson's Two Movies
It is crucial for Jews and Christians to try to understand
what version of 'The Passion' the other is watching and reacting to.
By Dennis Prager
Reprinted with permission of the author.
Early this past summer, Mel Gibson invited me to see "The Passion," his film on the trial and crucifixion of Jesus. The invitation was significant in that I was the first practicing Jew and active member of the American Jewish community to be invited. He did so because he believed, correctly, that he could trust me. I have long worked to build trust between Jews and Christians, especially traditional Christians.

The increasing tension over this film has reinforced impressions I offered Mel Gibson that day. When watching "The Passion," Jews and Christians are watching two entirely different films.

For two hours, Christians watch their Savior tortured and killed. For the same two hours, Jews watch Jews arrange the killing and torture of the Christians' Savior.

In order to avoid further tension between two wonderful communities that had been well on their way to historic amity, it is crucial for each to try to understand what film the other is watching and reacting to.

First, what Jews see. The Jews in the film (except, of course, for those who believe in Jesus) are cruel and often sadistic. One prominent Christian who saw the film along with my wife and me said that while watching the film he wanted to take a gun and shoot those who had brought such pain to Jesus. I couldn't blame him. The Jews in the film manipulate the Romans -- who are depicted as patsies of the Jews and in the case of Pilate, as morally far more elevated -- into torturing and murdering a beautiful man.

Why does this bother Jews so much? Because for nearly 2,000 years, attacked as "Christ-killers," countless Jewish men, women and children were tortured and murdered in ways that often caused more suffering than even Jesus endured (e.g., not only tortured and murdered themselves, but also seeing their families and friends raped, tortured and murdered). For Jews to worry that a major movie made by one of the world's superstars depicts Jews as having Christ tortured and killed might arouse anti-Semitic passions is not paranoid. Even though Islam denies the crucifixion, it is difficult to imagine that this film will not be a hit in the virulently anti-Semitic Arab world.

It is essential that Christians understand this. Every Jew, secular, religious, assimilated, left-wing, right-wing, fears being killed because he is Jewish. This is the best-kept secret about Jews, who are widely perceived as inordinately secure and powerful. But it is the only universally held sentiment among Jews. After the Holocaust and with Islamic terrorists seeking to murder Jews today, this, too, is not paranoid.

However, what Jews need to understand is that most American Christians watching this film do not see "the Jews" as the villains in the passion story historically, let alone today. First, most American Christians -- Catholic and Protestant -- believe that a sinning humanity killed Jesus, not "the Jews." Second, they know that Christ's entire purpose was to come to this world and to be killed for humanity's sins. To the Christian, God made it happen, not the Jews or the Romans (the Book of Acts says precisely that). Third, a Christian who hates Jews today for what he believes some Jews did 2,000 years ago only reflects on the low moral, intellectual and religious state of that Christian. Imagine what Jews would think of a Jew who hated Egyptians after watching "The Ten Commandments," and you get an idea of how most Christians would regard a Christian who hated Jews after watching "The Passion."

Jews also need to understand another aspect of "The Passion" controversy. Just as Jews are responding to centuries of Christian anti-Semitism (virtually all of it in Europe), many Christians are responding to decades of Christian-bashing -- films and art mocking Christian symbols, a war on virtually any public Christian expression (from the death of the Christmas party to the moral identification of fundamentalist Christians with fundamentalist Muslims). Moreover, many Jewish groups and media people now attacking "The Passion" have a history of irresponsibly labeling conservative Christians anti-Semitic.

I cannot say that I am happy this film was made. Nevertheless, if the vast majority of Christians and Jews of goodwill try hard to understand what film the other is watching, some good can yet result. The last thing Jews need is to create tension with their best friends. And the last thing Christians need is a renewal of Christian hatred toward Jesus' people.
326 posted on 03/05/2004 1:56:35 AM PST by Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
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To: Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
And an equal number of Christians did all they could to help Jews escape the Holocaust. This is a deliberately UNDERTOLD story, but there were thousands of Christians who risked their lives. There's a lot of anti-Christian bigotry going on in these tales of Christian complicity.
439 posted on 03/05/2004 6:49:00 AM PST by ultima ratio
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To: Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
Thank you for your post, it was very informative. However it will be the Christian that faces the coming holocaust during the reign of the approaching global dictator, as the Christian is arrested, vanishes from his neighborhood, and is tried and beheaded for his testimony of Jesus. Following in the footsteps and drinking from the cup of their Lord.

Mr Gibson did a fine job of revealing how the corrupt ban together to push their agendas, against all laws and established decorum.

We see how the corrupt members of the Priesthood met at a time when the full council would not be present, just as we see the senate meet today, using the holidays when most members have left D.C. to meet and push through legislation that would never fly in full session. We have seen how the congress and the senate will attempt to escape accountability via the voice vote.

We saw how these corrupt priests used their bought and paid for mob, as they rousted them out of bed in the middle of the night to condemn Jesus. We need look no farther than Jesse Jackson, the domocrat vote buying and busing to polls scheme, or Union bosses to make the comparison today.

Man never changes, his toys change, he changes his living conditions and standards, but man has not changed from the Garden of Eden. The only thing that changes man is Jesus.

So, no, the Jews need not fear another holocaust, the next one is not for them. However, they do still live under the judgement that God judged them with, that their foot should never rest easy in any land they are scattered to. They will fear the sword that is there, and run from a phantom sword that isn't there except in their own fearful minds.

The coming global government will make Christianity illegal. The Christian will face false charges, being hunted and trapped will find himself before a branch of the global judiciary, much like the one at the Hague. There he will be condmened and sentenced to beheading for his refusal to accept the mark or worship the dictator. The Jews and Israel will already be worshipping him, given they believe he is their long awaited messiah. He will betray them half way through their seven year contract.

Therefore, at times, the fear of those that see boogie men behind every bush, and/or fear conversion of their members, must be ignored in favor of the truth. This is one of those times. Jesus instructed us to "sow while we have the light, because the night is coming when no man can sow".

There is quickly coming a time when Chistians dare not reveal who they are, a time when the lies and delusion are so thick that the strongest light cannot cut through it. So our Jewish brothers will just have to bear with us, our first duty is to the Lord.
522 posted on 03/05/2004 7:52:40 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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