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To: ZULU; SJackson
I think you are judging Krauthamer too harshly. Most of his comments, if not all of them are accurate. He;s not Christian, he's Jewsih and those are his observations. They seem to be valid ones to me. And I doubt if any one out there can seriously refute them.

The release of this movie, unfortunately, has given cover to some anti-semites, who apparently have had smoldering animus toward Jews lurking on, or just below, the surface. Now they have an opportunity to let it rip, and let it rip they are.

They certainly validate Foxman's concerns.

402 posted on 03/05/2004 6:10:10 AM PST by veronica ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people." GW Bush 1-20-04)
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To: veronica
I could turn your claim on its head--that this movie has provided quite the pulpit for Jews to express an acute distaste for the conservative Christian's worship...from liberals like Foxman to conservatives like Charen>--an elitism under the cover of some perceived, hyped-up threat of antisemitism.

And, in the east, some Mullah issues a fatwah, the Fatah commits a new atrocity, and we don't hear a word from the Gibson Hysterics in Hollywood.

And evangelicals will still continue to work to try to keep Israel alive. (Just saw a recent effort by some really way-out evangelicals raising money to get Jews from Ethiopia and Russia to Israel.)

But they're not stupid. They know the score--can't put it back in the box now.

409 posted on 03/05/2004 6:21:29 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: veronica
Actually, the anti-Semites, Foxman, Krauthammer and lot of other people are missing the message.

I didn't see the movie myself - doubt if I will. I'm a Biblical History buff and Roman history buff and know enough about the period to know its not perfectly historical. Few movies are. And it looks too bloody for me.

But the message of the movie (and the Gospels) seems to be that Christ died to save all men from their sins. That he willingly chose to sacrifice himself that way. That if he hadn't appeared and been killed in 31 A.D. by the Romans and the High Priests, he would have appeared somewhere else. They were just God's tools in His plan for salvation.

One of the places I disagree with Gibson's apparent interpretation (again - I didn't see the movie) is his portrayal of the entire Jewish crowd as being anti-Christ.

My impression of things is that Christ had become too popular with the Jewish masses, and that was the real reason the High Priest in the Synhedrin - most of them - wanted him killed. They wanted to preserve their power, their lifestyle, their wealth and their cozy relationship with Rome. So I think that the mob who was assembled there calling for Christ's death and the release of Barabas was well sprinkled with Syherinic goons who made sure their feelings were the only ones which prevailed. The guard assigned to march Him to Golgotha may very well have been there to prevent the main Jewish mob from rescuing Him. Who knows?

The canard about "His blood be on our children and our children's children" appears in only ONE of the Gospels and may very well have been a later insertion in the original work. At any rate, MOST of the Jews were not there - just the Synhedrinic cronies.

The entire situation in Judea at the time was very confused and turbulent with many different factions competing against themselves and against or for Rome. No one has definitely identified the Qumran Community as to what sect they belonged. Reading Josephus, he describes an actual war going on within Jersualem between three separate Jewish factions - WHILE THE ROMANS WERE ACTUALLY INVESTING THE CITY.

Our records of the period are unfortunately very incomplete.

At any rate, Christ's entire career was centered on criticism of the Temple hierarchy, the Pharisees and Saduccees for having misled the Jewish people and fallen away from mainstream Judaism and the message of God.

I'm sure that was the key to their hatred of Him and the ostenible reason for His death.
421 posted on 03/05/2004 6:32:27 AM PST by ZULU (God Bless Senator Joe McCarthy!!!)
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To: veronica
Lots of options.

Kerry’s one, he won’t be friendly to Israel, a plus, but I’m sure he’ll allow Jews (aka neo cons) in his administration. Better options out there.

The Constitution Party, "Bush Slaps Face of Believers, Conservatives, might be a better choice. I doubt they’ll run Joe “Jew obcessed” Sobran again, but I’m sure they know how to handle these problems.

Lyndon LaRouche will be running.

And there’s even the Socialist Party.

Plenty of options. I admit though, if the key issue is a “No Jews, Just Right” administration, GWB probably isn’t the candidate to support.


483 posted on 03/05/2004 7:28:45 AM PST by SJackson (The Passion: Where were all the palestinians?)
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To: veronica
The release of this movie, unfortunately, has given cover to some anti-semites, who apparently have had smoldering animus toward Jews

On the contrary, it's brought to the surface a hatred, or to put the most generous spin on it - a phobia - , towards christianity and the gospels, not only on the part of a some jews but also liberal gentiles. Christians have a right to defend their faith and to cal the anti-christians on their bigotry.

494 posted on 03/05/2004 7:35:44 AM PST by churchillbuff (?)
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To: veronica
They certainly validate Foxman's concerns.

Oh yes. Watch out! The Christians are coming to attack you! Hide under the bed!

810 posted on 03/05/2004 1:39:11 PM PST by stands2reason
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