Open Letter To Charles Krauthammer Re:"The Passion"

[DestroytheDemocrats]

One last post and I am done with this. Gibson relies on Emmerich for spiritual edification and for inspiration for this film. Gibson has been quoted as saying that Emmerich “supplied me with stuff I never would have thought of.”[8] He also carries what he considers to be her relic, which he showed during a recent television interview. That is problematic right there!!

Read this excerpt from her writtings!!!"

"At the same moment I perceived the yawning abyss of hell like a fiery meteor at the feet of Caiaphas; it was filled with horrible devils; a slight gauze alone appeared to separate him from its dark flames. I could see the demoniacal fury with which his heart was overflowing, and the whole house looked to me like hell. […]I remember seeing, among other frightful things, a number of little black objects, like dogs with claws, which walked on their hind legs; I knew at the time what kind of wickedness was indicated by this apparition, but I cannot remember now. I saw these horrible phantoms enter into the bodies of the greatest part of the bystanders, or else place themselves on their head or shoulders.[6] "

How creepy is that? And then there is her comment about Jews strangling Christian babies? What the HELL is that all about?

[DestroytheDemocrats]

"I have only heard the movie is based on Emmerich's work from the ADL and others, not from Gibson. That mystic was nuts,"

From Christianity Today:

"Early in the filming of The Passion, he gave a long interview to Raymond Arroyo on the conservative Catholic network EWTN. ... He also recounted a series of divine coincidences that led him to read the works of Anne Catherine Emmerich, a late-18th, early-19th-century Westphalian nun who had visions of the events of the Passion. Many of the details needed to fill out the Gospel accounts he drew from her book, Dolorous Passion of Our Lord. "

[Agnes Heep]

How creepy is that? And then there is her comment about Jews strangling Christian babies? What the HELL is that all about?

That's part of the "blood libel" by which Jews have been calumniated for quite some time. It varies from place to place; the essence of it is that Jews require the blood of a Christian child in order to make the matzoh for their Passover celebration. It presents them with a double whammy because Jews are forbidden to eat blood, and hence, by inference, things that have been strangled to death.

[Americathy]

I repeat: "... but even if he incorporated any of her work, nothing of the sort about strangling Christian babies is even remotely suggested in Gibson's movie." Gibson obviously took some stuff from her work and left others out. Caiaphas was an evil man. Adding demons to his character, real or not real, doesn't bother me in the least.

[DestroytheDemocrats]

"nothing of the sort about strangling Christian babies is even remotely suggested in Gibson's movie."

Would you take seriously any person who ever wrote the following: "The soul of the old Jewess Meyr told me on the way that it was true that in former times the Jews, both in our country and elsewhere, had strangled many Christians, principally children, and used their blood for all sort of superstitious and diabolical practices."

I don't care what else she wrote she's a nut and he reads her works.

I still like Mel Gibson but a religious authority he aint. And an authority on the gospels he aint. He seems to be a nice man and I wish him the best and all that. But I think after the dust settles there will be a reapproachment of this movie and a few hangovers from overindulgence in its praises.

[Stand4Truth]

The rejection of "the result" of Vatican II that I am speaking of has nothing to do with the portion regarding relations with Jews. Charles conjured this up not me.

[DestroytheDemocrats]

"Those priests who molested little boys may be Catholic, but they are no Christians... "

Well as the Church Lady would say, "Isn't that convenient? Stop really. You insult my intelligence. One minute you are a Christian, then you sin and oops, not a Christian, then you ask for forgiveness, then oh back to being a Christian again. So basically one is either a Christian or a sinner but never both at the same time. Therefore no Christian ever persecuted a Jew because that would be a sin.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry but Krauthammer is on FOX and I just want to listen to a human being that makes sense so I am going to watch him. Good night all.

[Americathy]

Well, you royally twisted my words. To each his own.

[DestroytheDemocrats]

Okay. I see. Take care and no hard feelings or anything like that. Same to you Americathy. You can have the last word. Good night.

[Americathy]

There is a point that one has to know the discussion must end. I say one thing, you counter with something that I don't even recognize as being even close to my words. What is the point of that sort of conversation?

[bulldogs]

Let destroy go, you are right.

[fish hawk]

You are right, of course, but as I see it, it really doesnt matter what Mel Gibson read or believes, he put this movie together and God the Holy Spirit is going to use it for good all over the world. Nothin anyone can do about it either. If God can make man out of the dust of the ground he can save a sould through a movie not matter what the orginal intention was. IMHO

[jnarcus]

Free will is and always will be free will. It is what a loving G_d has given us human beings as a special gift unique to our humanity. Moreover, suggesting that Lucifer and Satan have the capacity to deceive one does not obviate free will. It is mankinds job to discern the difference between that which looks lovely to the eye and that which is truly of G_d. And no the crucifixion is NOT the central point of Christianity, the resurrection is. C.S. Lewis explains it clearly in Mere Christianity. The reality is that all sorts of folks can claim to be the One sent by G_d and die even a horrible death. But the thing that makes this one unique and worthy of belief is the resurrection without that the words are cheap and meaningless. Hitler's slaughter of those who did not agree with him was aided by his undermining the church before starting the slaughter. He was not a Christian and did not proclaim to be . In fact he and his followers were devoted to the Thule Society which had nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity but rather neopagan Germanic mythology.

[DentsRun]

Moreover, if you don't believe there were massacres of Jews throughout history by "Christians" who blamed Jews for the death of JC, then what do you think prepared Europe for the Holocaust? Do you think Hitler just sprung up from nowhere and millions of "Christians" decided to go along with the idea of extermination as a lark? There was no prejudice against the Jews at all in "Christian" Europe? Or if there was, what do you think was the cause? Was it the behavior of the Jews? What did they do to make everyone hate them so much?

One reason certainly was the role of Jewish Bolsheviks in the Russian revolution, which in its extreme hostility to Christianity burned churches, murdered priests, killed nuns and deliberately starved 5 to 10 million Christians in the Ukraine. The fact that ordinary Germans were terrified of the the Bolsheviks made it easy for for for a master manipulator like Hitler to induce them to buy into his genocidal agenda.

[DentsRun]

But I think after the dust settles there will be a reapproachment of this movie and a few hangovers from overindulgence in its praises.

I saw the movie last night. It was neither as life changing as its admirers asserted nor as awful as its detractors claimed. I personally enjoyed and was glad I went, but in the end it was just a movie, not a cultural juggernaut that will forever change the face of western society.

[Elsie]

elsie, here's an opportunity to re-post your rebuttal.

 

 

It's a bit long... those who wish to see it context can link to the above, or mybe, just MAYBE, they could READ THE Book!  ;^)

 

Here.. I'll strip out the pertinant verses for ya'll!

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Acts 3

 13.  The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.
 14.  You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you.
 15.  You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. 

 26.  When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways."

 

 

Acts 4 
 10.  then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.
 11.  He is "`the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone. '
 12.  Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
 

 27.  Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people  of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 

 

 

 

 Acts 5

 28.  "We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood."
 29.  Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!
 30.  The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead--whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.
 31.  God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.
 32.  We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
 33.  When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death.
 

 

Acts 6

 

 9.  Opposition arose, however, from members of the Synagogue of the Freedmen (as it was called)--Jews of Cyrene and Alexandria as well as the provinces of Cilicia and Asia. These men began to argue with Stephen,
 10.  but they could not stand up against his wisdom or the Spirit by whom he spoke. 
 

 

 Acts 7

 
 51.  "You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
 52.  Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him--
 53.  you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it."
 

[Elsie]

 

All true Christians including myself believe that Christ died for the sins of all mankind everywhere for all time.

Please reconsider your statement. Rethink this clearly, please.

 

Is it the TRUE word that makes you ask this question? 

 

Forget the TRUE and let's look at some verses to back it up?

 

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John 1:7
  He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.

 

John 1:9
   The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

 

NJohn 12:32
   But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

 

Acts 17:25
 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.

 

Acts 17:31
   For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."

 

Romans 5:18

  Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

 

1 Corinthians 12:6
  There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

 

1 Timothy 2:3-6
 3.  This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
 4.  who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
 5.  For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
 6.  who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time.

 

1 Timothy 4:9-10
  9.  This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance
 10.  (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

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(Note that the inference here is that while God WANTS all men to be saved, not ALL MEN will accept Him.)

 

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

(I found another...)

 

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
 14.  For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews,
 15.  who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men
 16.  in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

[eleni121]

Excellent refutation.

Maybe Krauthammer can relieve his frustrations by playing this from The Jewish Hammer, the film that bashes Christians (all in fun of course)

http://www.thehebrewhammer.com/fun.asp

[keithtoo]

I saw the movie tonight with my wife. Honestly, considering the material, I didn't think it was too violent at all. I thought it was realistic, and nothing more.

I grew up Catholic, and I was an altar boy. I performed the Stations of the Cross dozens of times so I was familiar with the Catholic take that Mel used.

It was a fantastic movie, but it merely covered the material realistically. I mean if you do a movie about the Titanic - at some point a boat has to sink, right?

What I do think is that Muslims will go nuts when they see this movie. Don't forget, to a Muslim, Christ was the immediate precoursor of Mohammed. Seeing Christ abused will add fuel to their already delusionary fires.

Another insight is that, viewing this movie, ALL of the Jewish non-clerical characters, I mean ALL of them - and these were the good-guys in this movie - could be mistaken in terms of appearance for modern day Muslims. From the head coverings of men and women, to the beards on the men, the dark complexions, the 'stone age' environs of the town. I had to mention that because it jumped out at me. I can't help but see them identifying with the 'downtrodden and oppressed' middle easterners in this movie.