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Kerry vows an early legal challenge to avoid repeat of 2000 recount
sf gate ^ | 8 March 2004 | MIKE GLOVER

Posted on 03/08/2004 5:04:49 PM PST by demlosers

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:46:00 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: demlosers
Damn,JfK,you don't have to get snippy about it.Hows about you starting work on a pre-concession speech?
41 posted on 03/08/2004 5:26:19 PM PST by John W
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To: AgThorn
Cheating! How dare you accuse the dems of that! But -- take a careful look at this article showing what dirty little secrets John Lott has discovered. This should be the lead story on every news broadcast, but don't hold your breath.

Let the Sunshine In The same old myths live on about Florida, Nov. 2000.

By John R. Lott Jr.

Headlines this weekend recited the old line "Dems accuse Bush of stealing the 2000 election." Former U.S. Representative Carrie Meek received a wildly enthusiastic response from delegates to the Florida Democratic convention with calls that "We should be ready for revenge!" Retired General Wesley Clark told delegates he fought for democracy and free elections in Vietnam and Europe only to see "the taking" of the presidency by Republicans in 2000. Senator John Edwards said, "We had more votes; we won!" Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts said: "None of us are going to forget." More vaguely, Senator Joe Lieberman claimed that Bush "stretched the truth" to get his way in 2000. Of course, Terry McAuliffe was beating the same old drum. They should all get over it.

The stolen election supposedly incorporated many wrongs, but foremost was discrimination against Democratic African-American voters: Faulty voting machines were said to have thrown out their votes at higher rates. Also included are claims that the voters' intent wasn't properly divined, that Republicans on the Supreme Court felt compelled to covertly snatch the election, and that African-Americans were intimidated into not voting or were erroneously placed on the ineligible list at higher rates than other racial groups.

These charges have been rebutted before, but with so much misinformation and people's short memories simply accepting the charges, many risk believing that they are true. There has also been new research — of which most people may not be aware — which helps replace myth with reality.

1. THE MYTH OF THE FLAWED VOTING MACHINES & DEMOCRATIC DISENFRANCHISEMENT

Suppose spoiled or non-voted ballots really did indicate disenfranchisement, rather than voter preferences. Then, according to the precinct-level vote data compiled by USA Today and other newspapers, the group most victimized in the Florida voting was African-American Republicans, and by a dramatic margin, too.

Earlier this year I published an article in the Journal of Legal Studies analyzing the USA Today data, and it shows that African-American Republicans who voted were 54 to 66 times more likely than the average African American to cast a non-voted ballot (either by not marking that race or voting for too many candidates). To put it another way: For every two additional black Republicans in the average precinct, there was one additional non-voted ballot. By comparison, it took an additional 125 African Americans (of any party affiliation) in the average precinct to produce the same result.

Some readers may be surprised that black Republicans even exist in Florida, but, in fact, there are 22,270 such registered voters — or about one for every 20 registered black Democrats. This is a large number when you consider that the election in the state was decided by fewer than 1,000 votes. Since these Republicans were more than 50 times more likely to suffer non-voted ballots than other African Americans, the reasonable conclusion is that George W. Bush was penalized more by the losses of African-American votes than Al Gore.

Democrats have also claimed that low-income voters suffered non-voted ballots disproportionately. Yet, the data decisively reject this conclusion. For example, the poorest voters, those in households making less than $15,000 a year, had non-voted ballots at less than one-fifteenth the rate of voters in families making over $500,000.

It is difficult to believe that wealthy people were more confused by the ballot than poor people. Perhaps the rich or black Republicans simply did not like the choices for president and so did not vote on that part of the ballot. Perhaps there was tampering, but it is difficult to see how it could have been carried out and covered up. We may never know, but, clearly, the figures show that income and race were only one-third as important in explaining non-voted ballots as the methods and machines used in voting. For example, setting up the names in a straight line appears to produce many fewer problems than listing names on different pages or in separate columns.

2. THE MYTH THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS WERE INCORRECTLY PLACED ON THE CONVICTED-FELONS LIST AT A HIGHER RATE THAN OTHER GROUPS

The evidence on convicted felons comes from the U.S. Civil Rights Commission's Majority Report, which states: "The chance of being placed on this list [the exclusion list] in error is greater if the voter is African-American." The evidence they provide indicates that African-Americans had a greater share of successful appeals. However, since African-Americans also constituted an even greater share of the list to begin with, whites were actually the most likely to be erroneously on the list (a 9.9-percent error rate for whites versus only a 5.1-percent error rate for blacks). The rate for Hispanics (8.7 percent) is also higher than for blacks. The Commission's own table thus proves the opposite of what they claim. A greater percentage of whites and Hispanics who were placed on the disqualifying list were originally placed there in error.

In any case, this evidence has nothing to do with whether people were in the end improperly prevented from voting, and there are no data presented on that point. The Majority Report's evidence only examines those who successfully appealed and says nothing about how many of those who didn't appeal could have successfully done so.

3. THE MYTH THAT GORE WOULD HAVE WON IF RECOUNT HAD ONLY BEEN ALLOWED

There were two news consortiums conducting massive recounts of Florida's ballots. One group was headed by USA Today and the Miami Herald. The other one was headed by eight newsgroups including the Washington Post, New York Times, L.A. Times, Chicago Tribune, the Associated Press, and CNN. Surprisingly, the two groups came to very similar conclusions. To quote from the USA Today group's findings (May 11, 2001) on different recounts:

Who would have won if Al Gore had gotten the manual counts he requested in four counties? Answer: George W. Bush. Who would have won if the U.S. Supreme Court had not stopped the hand recount of undervotes, which are ballots that registered no machine-readable vote for president? Answer: Bush, under three of four standards.

Who would have won if all disputed ballots — including those rejected by machines because they had more than one vote for president — had been recounted by hand? Answer: Bush, under the two most widely used standards; Gore, under the two least used.

Of course, Florida law provided no mechanism to ask for a statewide recount a la the last option, only county-by-county recounts. And of course neither Gore's campaign nor the Florida Supreme Court ever asked for such a recount.

4. DON'T FORGET THE EARLY MEDIA CALL

Florida polls were open until 8 P.M. on election night. The problem was that Florida's ten heavily Republican western-panhandle counties are on Central, not Eastern, time. When polls closed at 8 P.M. EST in most of the state, the western-panhandle polling places were still open for another hour. Yet, at 8 Eastern, all the networks (ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, and NBC) incorrectly announced many times over the next hour that the polls were closed in the entire state. CBS national news made 18 direct statements that the polls had closed.

Polling conducted after the election indicates that the media had an impact on voter behavior, and that the perception of Democratic wins discouraged Republican voters. Democratic strategist Bob Beckel concluded Mr. Bush suffered a net loss of up to 8,000 votes in the panhandle after Florida was called early for Gore. Another survey of western-panhandle voters conducted by John McLaughlin & Associates, a Republican polling company, immediately after the election estimated that the early call cost Bush approximately 10,000 votes.

Using voting data for presidential elections from 1976 to 2000, my own own empirical estimates that attempted to control for a variety of factors affecting turnout imply that Bush received as many as 7,500 to 10,000 fewer votes than he would normally have expected. Little change appears to have occurred in the rate that non-Republicans voted.

Terry McAuliffe clearly stated his strategy "to use the anger and resentment that will come out of that 2000 election, put it in a positive way to energize the Democratic base." Democrats have used the notion that Bush is an illegitimate president to justify everything from their harsh campaign rhetoric to their filibusters against his judicial appointments.

More could be said about these myths, but most of them hardly merit discussion. Unfortunately, as Terry McAuliffe implies, these falsehoods will continue to be trumpeted frequently over the next year; thankfully, a few facts can help dispel them.

— John Lott is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. His data on the Florida 2000 election may be found at http://www.johnrlott.com/.

42 posted on 03/08/2004 5:26:50 PM PST by WL-law
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To: cajungirl
The movie about him "Blaze" was a real hoot.

How close was it historically to the real deal?
43 posted on 03/08/2004 5:27:00 PM PST by American_Centurion (Daisy-cutters trump a wiretap anytime - Nicole Gelinas)
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To: demlosers
Let's not forget that now we have an administration that actually WANTS to count the military absentee ballots, and will do everything possible to get them in in time. Kerry's anti-military party has no problem disenfranchising those patriots fighting to defend our country.

Second, the Gov's wise to the 'Rats extra punch machines, which probably voided 25,000 ballots by extra-punching Bush ballots en masse.

44 posted on 03/08/2004 5:27:00 PM PST by paul in cape
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To: cajungirl
"Blaze Starr."

Oh my, haven't heard that name for years.

I remember the days, going to college in Pittsburgh, we would sneak out of class and go to the strip joint to watch her. She was wonderful. Did you know she actually didn't take it all off. She was a tease.

As a young man, she taught me more than I learnt in college.

45 posted on 03/08/2004 5:27:02 PM PST by AGreatPer (The election has just started. It is fun watching Rats try to swim.)
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To: demlosers
"I don't think we ought to have any vote cast in America that cannot be traced and properly recounted..."

Traced back to the deceased, the convicts, the mentally ill, and illegal aliens, of which 100% vote Democratic? Kerry would lose in a landslide.
46 posted on 03/08/2004 5:27:28 PM PST by Solamente
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To: cajungirl
Don't you think that is over the top. That and the mysterious foreign leader support just both seem nutso to me. I think his judgement is very poor. But this is the man who gave that outrageous testimony in front of congress about his fellow soldiers.

Yes, it is over the top. And since you are pointing out he has a screw loose, don't forget he gave that testimony way back when using a fake accent. How nuts is that?

47 posted on 03/08/2004 5:28:59 PM PST by cyncooper ("Maybe they were hoping he'd lose the next Iraqi election")
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To: cajungirl
I thought about his viet nam testimony today. Imagine if it were true,,would you have said it. If there were that many soldier killers surely one would have snuffed you out for saying it. So it was obviously a lie. The man is somehow off, he is a little bit nutty. I am serious. There is something very odd at his center. Maybe a lack of a center. I am trying to piece this out but something about him is just not right. I sensed the same thing about Gore. Kerry is different, a bit more ethereal and vapor like,,he is sort of wafty.
48 posted on 03/08/2004 5:29:03 PM PST by cajungirl (John Kerry has no botox and I have a bridge to sell you!)
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To: demlosers
This should simply be painted by the R party guys as an attempt by Kerry to intimidate R voters to stay away from the polls for fear of being whacked around by union thugs.

What the hell, it's what they would do.

49 posted on 03/08/2004 5:29:47 PM PST by jwalsh07 (We're bringing it on John but you can't handle the truth!)
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To: beaversmom
I don't think I can take it.
50 posted on 03/08/2004 5:29:59 PM PST by cajungirl (John Kerry has no botox and I have a bridge to sell you!)
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To: demlosers
I'm sure pat buchannan will be on TV claiming that all votes for Nader were actually susposed to be for Kerry.
51 posted on 03/08/2004 5:31:16 PM PST by CWOJackson (What are you complaining about, she called me compassionate...)
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To: American_Centurion
pretty close!
52 posted on 03/08/2004 5:32:03 PM PST by cajungirl (John Kerry has no botox and I have a bridge to sell you!)
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To: demlosers
"Not only do we want a record level of turnout to vote, we want to guarantee that every vote is counted," the presumptive Democratic nominee told about 500 people at a town hall meeting Monday.

Who is going to guarantee it, Jaques, you? Or perhaps you can send terrence Mcauliffe to count the votes for you, Im sure he'll be honest about it..

53 posted on 03/08/2004 5:33:12 PM PST by cardinal4 (Terrence Maculiffe-Ariolimax columbianus (hint- its a gastropod.....)
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To: demlosers
"I intend to ask this legal team to do that, and we will identify those districts where people have had trouble voting in the past."

*Sigh*...Re-fighting the Vietnam War isn't enough for this guy. Now he wants to re-fight the Florida recount.

Geeze, it would be nice if this guy could turn a page and join the rest of us in this century.

54 posted on 03/08/2004 5:36:26 PM PST by Right_in_Virginia
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To: demlosers
I heard today that 65% of the Florida votes for the November 2004 election have already been counted. They were shipped to the Frenchman's counselor, Jacques Chirac, for safe keeping!
55 posted on 03/08/2004 5:36:41 PM PST by leprechaun9 (Beware of little expenses because a small leak will sink a great ship!)
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To: demlosers
He should design the butterfly ballot himself so that he can know for sure how the Republicans deceived the greedy geezers and the black voters.
56 posted on 03/08/2004 5:36:46 PM PST by Reelect President Dubya (Drug prohibition laws help support terrorism.)
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To: cajungirl
Oh, I just had a cheery thought. do you all think this man just might be crazy? I mean, like really crazy? Like he could go right over that edge?

He seems certifiable to me but then I happen to think all Liberals are whackos.

57 posted on 03/08/2004 5:37:32 PM PST by PeteFromMontana (Kerry needs a good ole fashioned Bush-wack!)
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To: demlosers
Well, hopefully the media won't lie and say the polls are closed before they actually are and call the state a victory for Gore.

miserable failure miserable failure miserable failure miserable failure war criminal

58 posted on 03/08/2004 5:41:21 PM PST by Fun Bob
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To: Paul Atreides
"We're going to pre-check it, we're going to have the legal team in place. ... We're going to take injunctions where necessary ahead of time. We'll pre-challenge if necessary," the four-term Massachusetts senator said.

He is already admitting they are going to hose up the election..

59 posted on 03/08/2004 5:42:15 PM PST by cardinal4 (Terrence Maculiffe-Ariolimax columbianus (hint- its a gastropod.....)
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To: cajungirl
I am thinking he is nutty as a fruitcake. The anonymous foreign leaders. The preemptive vote count. He is whackier than my crazy aunt or Ross perot's crazy aunt.

I'm with you on that. Do you notice how he wets his lips from time to time? It's distracting once one notices it. Some elderly people have a similar move. Tongue sticks out just a little bit.

What's the over/under on Kerry staying in the race all the way to the general election?

60 posted on 03/08/2004 5:42:27 PM PST by Cboldt
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