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California: Governor seeks "referendum proof" illegal alien driver license bill
KFI AM640, Los Angeles, John and Ken Show | March 8, 2004

Posted on 03/08/2004 5:38:55 PM PST by John Jorsett

Just heard an appearance on the John and Ken show by Ron Prince, sponsor of the new Proposition 187-type initiative that (if it gets enough signatures) will appear on the November ballot. Prince reports that an associate was attending a meeting with Schwarzenegger aides, on the subject of how Republican candidates should handle their campaigns. In the course of the discussion, the question of the new illegal alien driver licenses came up. An aide answered, "Don't worry about that, we're going for a 'referendum-proof' version." It seems that if the legislature designates a bill as "urgent," two-thirds of the legislators vote for it, and it's signed by the governor, it becomes law immediately. That means there's no opportunity for a referendum as in non-urgent bills, the technique we used to persuade the legislature to repeal SB60. All that it would take for making SB 1160 (Democrat Assemblyman Gil Cedillo's new illegal alien driver's license bill) urgent is for two Republicans in the state Senate and six in the Assembly to vote for it. According to Prince, it appears that Schwarzenegger is planning on leaning on Republicans to vote for 1160.

It's not clear whether Schwarzenegger is going to succeed with this, but Prince says that the legislature is going to keep running at this until they win. The only way we can get them to stop this nonsense is to pass an initiative (like Prince's new "son of 187" initiative), which can't be overridden by the legislature. Prince says that his initiative needs another 200,000 signatures in the next 6 weeks. Go to www.Save187.com, download the petition, print it out (make sure you make a two-sided printout and not single-sided), sign it, get anyone else you can to sign it, and mail it in. I'm doing that myself right now. I'm fed up with this garbage and it's time to put a stop to it.

I'll also be writing a strong letter to the governor to let him know just how I feel about this attempted end-run around the people. If this turns out to be true, his new name will be Governor Judas as far as I'm concerned.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: 1160; aliens; calgov2002; cedillo; driverslicense; gilcedillo; immigration; johnandken; johnandkenshow; ronprince; sb1160; sb60
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1 posted on 03/08/2004 5:38:56 PM PST by John Jorsett
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To: John Jorsett
Join Arnold. Or else.

Resistence is futile.
2 posted on 03/08/2004 5:41:58 PM PST by StoneColdGOP (McClintock - In Your Heart, You Know He's Right)
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To: John Jorsett
Do citizens have NO remedy when the government refuses to enforce law? This is a conspiracy to evade the law pure and simple.
3 posted on 03/08/2004 5:42:30 PM PST by DManA
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To: John Jorsett
"According to Prince, it appears that Schwarzenegger is planning on leaning on Republicans to vote for 1160. "

Of course, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT Prince's allegations about Arnold.

These one issue so-called conservatives have so much in common with the leftist Democrats, it's uncanny. Both make up something about the person they want to attack, present it as truth, then criticize it.

It leaves them with ZERO credibility.

4 posted on 03/08/2004 5:44:09 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: John Jorsett; Sabertooth; janetgreen; Rabid Dog; JustPiper
I heard the same travesty and it is exactly as you reported. In fact, I was just preparing to post a similar thread except that my title was "Schwarzenegger Preparing to Stab California Voters In Back."

BTW, I believe the man's name is actually "Prinz." As you mentioned, the "urgency clause" neuters our ability to overturn this monstrosity on a referendum, fellow Californians. We'd have to wait to do it as an initiative and there is not enough time to get through by November 2004, so we'd have to wait two years. By that time our state will be flooded with these criminals driving around legally.

Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to vent. And here's a McClintock "I told you so" bump to the top for good measure.

5 posted on 03/08/2004 5:48:04 PM PST by truthkeeper
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To: Bob; novacation; B Knotts
You guys too.
6 posted on 03/08/2004 5:50:13 PM PST by truthkeeper
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To: truthkeeper
It's good to vent, but it's even better to take action. I just downloaded and printed the petition, and I've already affixed my signature. I'll be getting some additional signatures tomorrw before I send it in.
7 posted on 03/08/2004 5:50:32 PM PST by John Jorsett
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Ping
8 posted on 03/08/2004 5:51:01 PM PST by John Jorsett
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To: John Jorsett
You betcha. I'll be banging on the neighbors' doors with it myself.
9 posted on 03/08/2004 5:51:47 PM PST by truthkeeper
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To: John Jorsett
Please don't take this personally -- you just heard it and posted it.

There is a Washington Times article along those lines -- with the same allegations, short on proof.

Arnold seeks to revamp license bill

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040301-115949-8170r.htm

NOWHERE does it say, that Arnold would support the current Dem bill, SB 1160. All that's happening, is that Arnold is meeting and talking with the Democrats, but he did not agree to any specific bill.

"Mr. Cedillo has introduced a "spot" bill, SB 1160, that effectively holds a place for the final version. "

Nobody knows what the final version is going to be.

I am all for people writing to Schwarzenegger and the CA Legislature and register their disapproval of the entire idea. I don't like it either.

What upsets me, is that, instead of putting the blame, where it belongs, on the Democrats, who are the ones who keep pushing this, people run and attack Schwarzenegger, who was the one, who got the Legislature to repeal it. Arnold demonstrated with the latest bond initiative, that he is going to go around the Legislature, if the Legislature is not going along with him.

In fact, Arnold is working on getting a Workman's Comp reform bill onto the November ballot, because he couldn't get any action from the Legislature.
10 posted on 03/08/2004 5:51:51 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: FairOpinion
It isn't just according to Prince. This was news WEEKS AGO when legislative watchers first saw the urgency clause in the bill.

I know it's hard for you to accept but Mr. Schwarzenegger can be, and IS, wrong on this.

Do those "Join Arnold" kneepads ever wear out?
11 posted on 03/08/2004 5:53:16 PM PST by StoneColdGOP (McClintock - In Your Heart, You Know He's Right)
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To: FairOpinion
Of course, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT Prince's allegations about Arnold.

These one issue so-called conservatives have so much in common with the leftist Democrats, it's uncanny. Both make up something about the person they want to attack, present it as truth, then criticize it.

Whether you believe this or not, will you download the "save our state" petitions and get some signatures because it's a good idea just on its own merits?

12 posted on 03/08/2004 5:53:46 PM PST by John Jorsett
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To: John Jorsett
It seems the people holding power have a deep need to force the citizens to relive 1861 to 1865. The present day politicians conduct seems to revitalize the idea of destiny.
13 posted on 03/08/2004 5:58:40 PM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (Further, the statement assumed)
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To: FairOpinion
Apparently I'm not the only person wondering if there anything, anything at ALL, that Arnold could possibly inflict upon us with which you would not agree 100%?
14 posted on 03/08/2004 5:59:29 PM PST by truthkeeper
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To: FairOpinion
There is a Washington Times article along those lines -- with the same allegations, short on proof.

The key element in this story is the allegation that a Shcwarzenegger aide said that they were going for the "referendum proof" version of the bill. If that was a true statement by the aide, the only way it could happen is with a two-thirds vote, and the only way that can happen is with Republican help; given the solidarity the Republicans exhibited in the budget battle with Davis, it'll take some pressure from Schwarzenegger to get them to them vote that way. I think Prince (not 'Prinz' as someone else thought it was spelled - I checked) said who it was who told him about the aide, so it should be possible to get at the truthfulness of the allegation. There were supposedly a number of people in the room when it was said.

15 posted on 03/08/2004 6:01:40 PM PST by John Jorsett
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To: John Jorsett
Yes, the aide's comment was made in response to a direct question from one of the assembly about "What Arnold is planning on doing about the illegal alien driver's license bill." Again, as you said, the aide's response was allegedly, "Oh, don't worry about that. The Governor is working with Gil Cedillo on that."
16 posted on 03/08/2004 6:05:19 PM PST by truthkeeper
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To: John Jorsett
There's a lot of sound and fury, but over what? What is the content of the proposed bill (maybe it's a good proposal)?
17 posted on 03/08/2004 6:07:03 PM PST by expatpat
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To: John Jorsett
"Whether you believe this or not, will you download the "save our state" petitions and get some signatures because it's a good idea just on its own merits?"

===

I agree.

I just wish that people would direct their ire towards the REAL enemy, the Democrats, instead of CONSTANTLY attacking other Republicans, who are NOT the real problem.

The DEMOCRATS are the real problem and we are NOT going to defeat them with the "circular firing squads" of attacking our own.
18 posted on 03/08/2004 6:08:11 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: John Jorsett
SOME of us aren't surprised.

Others refuse to be.

19 posted on 03/08/2004 6:08:30 PM PST by skeeter
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To: John Jorsett
SOME of us aren't surprised.

Others refuse to be.

20 posted on 03/08/2004 6:08:38 PM PST by skeeter
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To: skeeter
Denial ain't just a river.
21 posted on 03/08/2004 6:09:58 PM PST by truthkeeper
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To: John Jorsett
I thought Arnald was supposed to be against illegal alien drivers liscenses. What the hell is this?
22 posted on 03/08/2004 6:10:07 PM PST by Husker24
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To: John Jorsett
There is no way any GOP member in the legislature is going to support this. Arnold should be very, very careful. If he pulls this off, Arnold will not win the GOP nomination in the next election. Arnold may have to run as Democrat to be elected governor the next time around
23 posted on 03/08/2004 6:11:31 PM PST by Uncle Hal
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To: Husker24
Were you aware he did NOT support the referendum against the old bill (SB60) which had more than enough signatures to be overturned? He would only say that he had a problem with the "safety issues" in that bill.

And see, now he's fixing it. Aren't we the lucky ones?

24 posted on 03/08/2004 6:13:42 PM PST by truthkeeper
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To: Uncle Hal
I heard from my neighbor, who heard from one of McCLINTOCK's aide,that McClintock is going to support giving drivers licences for illegal aliens, he will also sponsor a legislation to allow illagal aliens to vote, and he has been talking with his Democrat counterparts to ammend the CA constitution, to allow marriages or anyone to anyone, even if one party is not human.

I am just soo disappointed for McClintock for betraying his conservative principles like that.

Since my neighbor said he heard it from a McClintock aide, I am sure it must be true.

I urge all of you to protest McClintock's support of these issues.

(THIS is NO different, than the accusations people are making against Arnold, without a single shred of evidence)
25 posted on 03/08/2004 6:15:50 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: StoneColdGOP
"legislative watchers first saw the urgency clause in the bill."


===
And where is any evidence, that Arnold supports this? NOWHERE. It doesn't exist.

If people say: "Look, the Dem Legislature is trying to pass another bill to give driver's licence to legitimize illegal aliens, we must stop it", then I know they care about the ISSUE, and are sincere.

But when people's focus is not the bill, but the invention that Arnold supports it, and their main focus is attacking Arnold, then I have to conclude, that they don't really care about the bill, they just want to attack Arnold, using this as an excuse. They wish, that McClintock had succeeded in syphoning away enough votes from Arnold to elect Bustamante as governor.

26 posted on 03/08/2004 6:21:27 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: FairOpinion
Tighter border control would remove this issue. Juan or Jose get pulled over today and you've got to go with what they tell you about themselves. Some form of ID is better than nothing, yet it shouldn't lead in any way toward voting priviledges.

I'd rather the cop know something about the driver than whether or not he's busted a pinata open in his lifetime.

27 posted on 03/08/2004 6:24:13 PM PST by budwiesest
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: FairOpinion
(THIS is NO different, than the accusations people are making against Arnold, without a single shred of evidence)

Sure it is, your version is made of whole cloth, and we all know it.

29 posted on 03/08/2004 6:31:13 PM PST by itsahoot (The lesser of two evils, is evil still...Alan Keyes)
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To: FairOpinion
I don't know if Arnold will "lean on" Republicans to pass the bill, but he has made it very clear that he supports the Cedillo bill for drivers licenses for illegals. He has said it on the radio, on television and in the newspapers. It sounded like he will be "encouraging" legislators to pass the bill, just he did he did with the bond issue.
30 posted on 03/08/2004 6:34:52 PM PST by CalKat
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To: Uncle Hal; John Jorsett; FairOpinion
Arnold may have to run as Democrat to be elected governor the next time around

And he should if he is going to pull this kind of stuff.

By the way I saw an interview with a high oficial of the US Chamber of Commerce saying we need these immigrant workers, we have jobs for them and they will help support our Social Security program because we need a better ratio of workers to retiree's so SS won't go bust! He didn't say it quite that way, but essentially that is what he was saying. Not sure where I saw it, maybe CNBC.

31 posted on 03/08/2004 6:42:39 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"...we have jobs for them and they will help support our Social Security program because we need a better ratio of workers to retiree's so SS won't go bust!"

I'd like to know how he figures, since so many of them work under the table and drain our resources. Just educating their kids alone is killing us.

32 posted on 03/08/2004 6:51:56 PM PST by truthkeeper
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To: truthkeeper; Pelham



Al Rantel is discussing this now on KABC 790.

Schwarzenegger is going to screw California over by supporting SB 1160, with a nice flip of the bird to those of us who passed out SaveOurLicense petitions by using the "urgency" clause.

Schwarzenegger supporters should get their plates ready for crow.


33 posted on 03/08/2004 7:13:37 PM PST by Sabertooth (Malcontent for Bush - 2004!)
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To: John Jorsett
I'm with FairOpinion on this one.

First, there is no credible source at this time. Lot's of rumors but no credible source.

Second, I don't think Schwarzenegger is that stupid. The minute he signs the legislation he's a one term governor and I think his aspirations are beyond one term.

Third, what remains of the dwindling number of US citizens in California will not stand for this nonsense. I don't pretend that I can predict their reaction accurately but my guess is that it will be just short of violent.

34 posted on 03/08/2004 8:20:23 PM PST by Amerigomag
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To: Amerigomag
I would agree!
35 posted on 03/08/2004 8:44:37 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)
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To: John Jorsett
If this turns out to be true, his new name will be Governor Judas as far as I'm concerned.

I just heard that if you give me all your money, you'll get ten times as much money from the Nigerian Finance Minister. If this turns out to be true . . . .

There's a fine line between Free Republic and Rumor Central, and you just crossed it.

36 posted on 03/08/2004 8:47:58 PM PST by 537 Votes (Compassionate Conservative = Moderate Republican = Country Club Liberal.)
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To: FairOpinion; truthkeeper
No Evidence? You obviously have not been following this issue very closely. Here's a couple quotes:
Arnold on drivers licenses
SacBee - Weintraub Weblog
Reporter: "You did say that to me when we talked one on one (Sept. 6, 2003) that you would consider a package deal that would have included a requirement of insurance for those people that are going to get the drivers license. That I know is something that you believe in. Do you also believe that all undocumented immigrants will be able to get a drivers license if they present insurance, if they have a background check, fingerprints?

Governor: "Absolutely...yes. This is what we are going to work on. This is what we are going to talk about, but right now the most important thing is to get this passed (the repeal of SB 60) so we can move to other issues. I think Senator Cedillo was extremely gracious and helpful with this whole thing. He is a great leader, he understood what would be the best thing for California; rather than just doing an immediate fix, but to make everybody happy. It doesn't make sense if the majority of Californians run around and hate the idea of undocumented immigrants having drivers licenses because there is no background check, because it doesn't solve the problem with insurance. Let's do it the right way, let's make every Californian happy and let's make the undocumented immigrants happy."

Driver License Issue Returns
Press Enterprise 1/29/04
SACRAMENTO Gov. Schwarzenegger said Tuesday he was "absolutely positive we'll come up with a great bill" to replace a law granting driver licenses to undocumented immigrants that was repealed days after he took office. It was a strong sign he supports giving driver licenses to California residents in the state illegally. Schwarzenegger said his office has been working closely with state Sen. Gil Cedillo, D-Los Angeles, to craft a successor to SB 60. The law became a lighting rod for criticism during last summer's recall campaign and was repealed at Schwarzenegger's insistence. Many Republicans remain opposed to the idea. And polls conducted last year showed a majority of Californians against giving driver licenses to undocumented immigrants. But Schwarzenegger said he is confident of the outcome. "It's one of those things that we'll all have to get together and see that this is a good idea and this is the way we move forward," Schwarzenegger said at a Sacramento Press Club lunch. "I'm talking with my Republican friends all the time about it and also with my Democratic friends. We will do it."

37 posted on 03/08/2004 9:03:23 PM PST by calcowgirl
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To: calcowgirl
Ping to above... Arnold is on the record already.
38 posted on 03/08/2004 9:08:56 PM PST by calcowgirl
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To: John Jorsett; Pelham; Amerigomag; StoneColdGOP; Ernest_at_the_Beach

SB 1160 Senate Bill - INTRODUCED

BILL NUMBER: SB 1160 INTRODUCED
BILL TEXT

INTRODUCED BY Senator Cedillo

FEBRUARY 2, 2004

An act relating to drivers, and declaring the urgency thereof, to take effect immediately.

LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

SB 1160, as introduced, Cedillo. Highways: drivers. Existing law makes it unlawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle upon a highway unless that person holds a valid driver's license issued under the Vehicle Code, and provides proof of financial responsibility.

This bill would express the intent of the Legislature to enact appropriate legislation that improves the safety of all California residents while operating motor vehicles upon our highways by ensuring that all drivers of motor vehicles are properly licensed, tested, and maintain proof of financial responsibility.

The bill would declare that it takes effect immediately as an urgency statute.

Vote: 2/3. Appropriation: no. Fiscal committee: no. State-mandated local program: no.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1. It is the intent of the Legislature to enact appropriate legislation that improves the safety of all California residents while operating motor vehicles on our highways by ensuring that all drivers of motor vehicles are properly licensed, tested, and maintain proof of financial responsibility.

SEC. 2. This act is an urgency statute necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, or safety within the meaning of Article IV of the Constitution and shall go into immediate effect. The facts constituting the necessity are:

In order to reduce the number of unlicensed drivers on our highways, who account for 20 percent of all accidents and, thereby, compromise public safety, it is necessary that this act take effect immediately.
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/bill/sen/sb_1151-1200/sb_1160_bill_20040202_introduced.html


39 posted on 03/08/2004 9:10:00 PM PST by Sabertooth (Malcontent for Bush - 2004!)
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To: Sabertooth
This act is an urgency statute necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace,

My guess is the effect would be quite the opposite.

40 posted on 03/08/2004 9:13:14 PM PST by Amerigomag
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: calcowgirl

Ooops, I blew the link...

State Sen. Gil Cedillo, D-Los Angeles, introduced SB 1160 as a way to save a spot in this year's legislative calendar for passage of a new law patterned after SB 60 -- but only when Cedillo negotiates the details with Schwarzenegger. Cedillo authored SB 60 in September.

Sticking points in the talks include whether a license would be available to all residents, regardless of their legal status, whether the licenses would have a different look than those held by legal residents and how to conduct background checks on undocumented applicants. They would also talk about ways to strengthen insurance requirements.

Dan Savage, Cedillo's chief of staff, said Cedillo plans to add amendments to the short, two-paragraph bill as the negotiations move on.

"We'll introduce a bill in its entirely when we reach an agreement," Savage said. "... The governor has been very clear that we're going to be driven by content and not be driven by speed."

Representatives from Schwarzenegger's office did not return phone calls by press time. The governor convinced Cedillo to support the demise of SB 60 In November, telling him that he would work on ways to devise a new bill that satisfied his concerns about security issues.
Activist group pushes new legislation allowing illegal immigrants the right to drive
napanews (FR link) | February 5, 2004 | DAVID RYAN


42 posted on 03/08/2004 9:18:24 PM PST by Sabertooth (Malcontent for Bush - 2004!)
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To: StoneColdGOP
"I know it's hard for you to accept but Mr. Schwarzenegger can be, and IS, wrong on this."

If second-hand "information" from talk radio is to be believed, then Arnold is the devil incarnate.

The problem with expecting rational *adults* to swallow such daily agitprop, however, is that none of the talk radio hosts or internet attackers can ever manage to quote Arnold directly. Instead, it's always "I've heard so-n-so claim..."

And that's probably good enough to get some gossip going in the local beauty parlors, but what mature adult is going to fall for it?!

Either people can quote Arnold supporting SB1160 or else they can't.

If they can't, then what exactly are they ascribing to Arnold that they have no evidence of?!

I mean, this is the governor who REPEALED Gray Davis' illegal alien license bill, and yet here we have people who very much wanted that repeal to happen...suddenly acting as though Arnold was Gray Davis himself rather than the man who recalled Gray and repealed his car tax and illegal alien license law.

43 posted on 03/08/2004 9:20:19 PM PST by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: truthkeeper
Thanks for the ping. This shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone, as I think we all knew the fix was in when Schwarzenegger cut the original deal with Cedillo to repeal the original illegal alien license law.

I guess some people still can't accept that they are getting exactly what they voted for.

44 posted on 03/08/2004 9:20:34 PM PST by B Knotts
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To: Amerigomag





My guess is the effect would be quite the opposite.

Some, it seems, won't believe the fire is hot until they reach their hand into it.


45 posted on 03/08/2004 9:20:42 PM PST by Sabertooth (Malcontent for Bush - 2004!)
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To: StoneColdGOP
Join Arnold. Or else.

I'll take the or else! He's a back stabbin liberal!

46 posted on 03/08/2004 9:21:37 PM PST by navyblue
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To: Southack
But, but, but...what about the guy down at the 7/11 who knows someone who's cousin is dating this dude in Sacramento that eats lunch where one of the Lt. Governor's aides does and he said that Arnold is really Vincente Fox's love child from his days in the Pan Mexican-Austrian Yodeling team.
47 posted on 03/08/2004 9:23:49 PM PST by CWOJackson (What are you complaining about, she called me compassionate...)
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To: Southack
I mean, this is the governor who REPEALED Gray Davis' illegal alien license bill,

No it isn't.

Schwarzenegger had no leverage over the Dems, except that given him by 500,000 signatures on SaveOurLicense petitions, a drive Schwarzenegger refused to support.

Schwarzenegger always said he would support an Illegal Alien drivers license bill that would meet his security concerns. Schwarzenegger supporters who believed and believe otherwise are simply lying to themselves.


48 posted on 03/08/2004 9:27:37 PM PST by Sabertooth (Malcontent for Bush - 2004!)
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To: calcowgirl
a package deal that would have included a requirement of insurance for those people that are going to get the drivers license.

If they have insurance why not just let them use their Mexican drivers licenses? That's how it's done here --- also if you visit Mexico, you keep your USA state drivers license, they don't give you a Mexican one --- but you do have to have insurance.

49 posted on 03/08/2004 9:28:28 PM PST by FITZ
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To: John Jorsett
Yes, right after you take care of that little matter of the law and gay mariage...
50 posted on 03/08/2004 9:29:01 PM PST by Libertina
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