Powell Reassures India on Technology Jobs

New York Times ^ | March 17, 2004 | STEVEN R. WEISMAN

[SwordofTruth]

Folks, India cannot outsource jobs, they have none! We provide them the remedial jobs.

Hey everyone, radio boy thinks computer programming is a "remedial" job! LOL!

[CasearianDaoist]

Now Russia is in relatively good shape and going forward. There is not reason why America which is much stronger would not come of analogical crisis regenerated.

Well I respect you notion But I go over th Russia quite often on business and let me tell you they are anything but in good shape. that is just PR. (this is another discussion) The concept of Government funding leading research it as old as research intself and legitmate as long as there is a payout to the country as a whole and there is a broad consensus on how to proceed. Our "trading partners" are doing so. You can take a libertarian tack but about 99 percent of the tech architecture that we have in this country have their roots in DOD, DOE, NSF, NASA/NACA or regulated semi-government institutions like the Old Bell Labs (which also got a lot of government monies.) We should go back to the old ARPA/DARPA model but apply it to civilian needs as well (actaully Bush's space initiative is pointing in this direction.) What is necessary is to understand that we are in and economic war and mobilize for it. We also must recognize the danger to liberty of "Globalism" and reject it.

[ninenot]

You've obviously missed about 10,000 posts on this issue, and your "skim-over-the-BushBot-top" approach may work on AM radio.

But don't pretend that you're making a contribution here..

[dennisw]

sucks ...... you are on the frontline of the offshoring jihad

[isthisnickcool]

Look, Indians suck at actual computer design work. They are good coders but stink at being able to solve solutions long-term.

Overall, that's true. They can bang out "pieces" of things but they don't usually have a talent for design. They can build you a specific part of a puzzle (if you spec. it out in great detail) but they can't see the completed puzzle at all. And they'd never dream it up in the first place. "Idiot savants" if you will.

As far as coding many of us outsource "piece work" to coders in various countries. Under short contract. It's grunt work more than anything else. I don't have to have a domestic coder do it and we get the source. It takes one of my guys to "oversee" the work and vet the code. That gives my "smart" guys time to do important things and I use the difference to pay them more money or hire more domestic contract guys for implementation work.

As far as software development goes there is an international sweat shop available. India is part of it. As far as I'm concerned from my personal experience the jokes on them.

[ninenot]

There is no chance for victory by choosing not to play the game. Only disqualification.

From what?

Oh--I forgot: PRChina is the World's Largest Marketplace With 1 Billion Buyers of American Luxury Cars and 3-Bedroom Air Conditioned Homes.

You forgot about this mandatory statement, right?

[ninenot]

Better thought:

Coupons. When India/China/France, whoever, buys $1Bn in US-manufactured product, they get a coupon allowing them to sell $1Bn. of THEIR goods in USA.

That's called "fair."

[ninenot]

And besides ALL those good points you made, a little-known fact:

AMERICA HAS THE 2nd-HIGHEST PER CAPITA NUMBER OF ENGINEERS IN THE WORLD (after Israel.)

What "lack of skills?"

[CasearianDaoist]

Not for long. And I quesion the validity of "per capita" nu,bers whe you are talking about 2.3 billion people (CHina + India.)

[Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ]

Yes, some jobs are software, but majority of those will return ... MAJORITY are telemarketing, service call oriented...let it go and jobs will return to US, no government legislation...

BTW...has anyone brought up a more important outsourcing? What about Kerry's denial of ANWAR...because we are dependent, we are losing thousands of jobs to government hurdles over enviroment...

Thousands of jobs come from the "black stuff", not just gas! Why aren't we focused on the outsourcing of these jobs?

This argument is not as simple as some of your represent. My best reply...remember, it is NOT your job, it is the company job, you don't sign the front of the check. If they desire savings...we want them rich...so our checks actually cash!

I'm on the air...back later to debate!!!

[ninenot]

Check Norm Matloff's website at UC-Davis.

BTW, lotsa those Indian/Chinese "degrees" are purchased/forged.

[phil_will1]

"The best proposal I have seen so far is the 1% tariff on imported goods and services."

You apparently haven't studied the FairTax proposal. It would levy a 23% sales tax on all purchases of new goods and services for consumption. However, because of the removal of the current tax system, American made goods would drop in price app. 20 - 30% to cushion the impact of the sales tax. However, imports would not be able to drop their prices by anything like that amount and remain profitable. Therefore, a very significant shift in the demand here in the US for domestic made products would occur.

On the other hand, we could ship products outside the country at a 20 - 30% reduction in price with comparable profit margins. That would increase the demand for US produced goods in foreign markets as well.

The bottom line is that the current tax system handicaps US producers enormously vs their international counterparts. Fixing that would go a long way toward creating more jobs in this country and stimulating our economy.

[ninenot]

I like the consumption tax, too. It will never happen, insofar as there are 12 bazillion lobbyists who favor the current labrynth, and NOBODY (to speak of) who prefers the consumption tax--which has the additional disadvantage of being progressive by its very nature--thus the Upper Class doesn't want it, either.

[UlmoLordOfWaters]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh...here you are! Stirring up trouble again, eh?

I haven't had time to read the article or all the responses yet, so won't make too many comments. However, as an IT person, I do find this scary. I don't want to go back to school to find another profession--this is what I LOVE to do. Soooooo, I'm enhancing my skills in this field in a specialty that I truly enjoy--UI design. Speaking of, I must get back to work and finish this SXLT.

[phil_will1]

Eric, while I agree with a lot of what you say, we should remember to make a distinction between free trade and fair trade. For example, it is encouraging to hear that Secretary Powell is urging the Indians to open up their markets.

However, unless and until we enact Fundamental Tax Reform (FTR), we are putting our producers in a can't win position. Please review my post above.

Free trade when you have a tax system like ours is economic suicide.

[phil_will1]

"It will never happen...."

I disagree, the FairTax proposal is picking up quite a bit of momentum. As one poster on here said, the more people study it, the better they like it. We are up to 46 co-sponsors on the House bill now, one of which is Majority Leader Tom Delay.

However, the real reason we will have FTR is that we won't have a choice, at least long-term. The current system is doubling in size and complexity every 25 years, with no slowdown in sight. If that continues, this system will be approaching 100,000 pages by the time children born this year reach tax-paying age. I don't expect to ever see that happen - the system will collapse of its own enormous weight before we ever reach 100,000 pages.

Therefore, I am of the opinion that we WILL have FTR, the only question is when. Will it be before or after the current system collapses? Time will tell.

[junta]

With all our stupid policies, open borders, multi-culturalism, one way trade, and other liberal stupidities the world rightly views America as a land mass to eventually be colonized. There is no reciprocity, we Americans get shoveled some bromides about "Universal principles" and the other side liberals and foreigners take, take, take without shame.

[UlmoLordOfWaters]

Hi phil_will1,

Where can one find info on the FTR?

Thanks.

[CasearianDaoist]

No, I do not question the accuracy of the figure, I question its meaning. Just because it is per capita does not mean that they do not have more engineers. All other things being equal it is the critical mass.

[ex-snook]

Ping back.

Speaking of Gods. Isn't there something like - 'whom the Gods would destroy, they first made mad'?

Contributions from free traders have made the Bush Administration mad.