Cold-War Thinking Prevented Vital Vehicle From Reaching Iraq

Wall St Journal ^ | 3-19-04 | Greg Jaffe

[SJackson]

WASHINGTON -- A decade ago, the Army began producing an armored Humvee capable of providing protection from many roadside bombs and rocket-propelled grenades.

Like most soldiers in Iraq, Capt. Cameron Birge hasn't set foot in one of those vehicles. Instead, he leads convoys through one of the country's most violent regions in a Humvee -- the modern successor to the Jeep -- with a sheet-metal skin that can't even stop bullets from a small-caliber handgun. To shield himself, Capt. Birge removed his Humvee's canvas doors and welded on slabs of scrap metal. He spread Kevlar blankets over the seats and stacked sandbags on the floor.

[RicocheT]

We have thousands of 113 APCs parked at military depots in the US and in Europe. Why haven't some of these been sent to Iraq and Afghanistan? They are not as armored as the Bradley, but better than the Humvee.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

Weird, huh? Every 'Modern Soldier' show on History Channel or Discovery seems to obsess with how soldiers will definitely be engaged in urban battles, and they always show they guys storming houses, close in, etc etc.

It doesn't have to be a tank, and I wouldn't expect it to hold up to .50 cal armor piercing rounds, but wouldn't a cheapo solution be to surround the drivers compartment with a U-shaped "bathtub" of armor steel a la A-10 airplane at the expense of maybe 500 lbs?

[jimtorr]

.....surround the drivers compartment with a U-shaped "bathtub" of armor steel a la A-10 airplane at the expense of maybe 500 lbs?

I think the weight is a lot more than that. You can't just protect the driver, but must go for the entire passenger area. A Humvee is pretty large.

I can see the future now, five years after this Iraq involvement is over. While the armored vehicles are needed now, the same critics will be complaining that these armored Humvees are to heavy.

[skinkinthegrass]

reality check..no offense intended. :)

In the 1993-2000, Bubba was the Pres...IMHO, He (and his co-pres.-Shrillary) didn't give a "TINKERS' DAMN" about "National security"...The military Services were "the Enemy", so they went about destroying the services, anyway they could...the same w/tactics were used via the fed. courts ageist the conservatives in government.

We could go on...w/about 100tb of bandwidth.

[omega4412]

"...the service also has tended to overlook simple, low-cost innovations that often count for much more on the battlefield."

They should remember their military history.

"[The] equipment...among the most vital to our success in Africa and Europe were the bulldozer, the jeep, the 2 1/2 ton truck, and the C-47 airplane. Curiously enough, none of these is designed for combat."

--Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower

[VaBthang4]

Were you one of the guys capping on the Stryker?

The Humvee can maneuver better and is faster than the 113. It may be a mistake but I'd leave the 113s right where they are. Just beef up the Hummers.

[expatpat]

"Getting the Army to support the armored Humvee was like pushing a limp rope up a hill," says Jim Mills, a retired colonel who was a senior manager on the program for several years in the late 1990s.

The Clinton f-ups strike again!

[SJackson]

.....surround the drivers compartment with a U-shaped "bathtub" of armor steel a la A-10 airplane at the expense of maybe 500 lbs?...I think the weight is a lot more than that. You can't just protect the driver, but must go for the entire passenger area. A Humvee is pretty large.

That's essentially what they're doing, though it's about 2,000 pounds.

Industry mobilizing to produce up-armored Humvees
By Heike Hasenauer

Acting Secretary of the Army Les Brownlee meets a worker off the Humvee assembly line at an AM General factory in northern Indiana.

MISHAWAKA, Ind.(Army News Service, Feb. 18, 2004) –Humvee production in February has ramped up from 25 to 30 vehicles daily at an AM General factory in order to meet the demand in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Acting Secretary of the Army Les Brownlee visited the plant Feb. 13, located about 10 miles east of South Bend, Ind. He thanked workers for their service to the nation, and reinforced their resolve to get the best Humvees to the troops as fast as possible.

Today the work ethic at the factory is much as it was at manufacturing plants across America during World War II. Then U.S. industry produced a staggering amount of materiel for the war effort, including 350,000 jeeps, Brownlee told plant officials.

About 1,200 AM General workers in northern Indiana base their livelihoods on Army contracts to build the High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicles, better known as Humvees. The company has produced more than 170,000 Humvees since the vehicle was introduced in 1985, according to company spokesman Craig C. Mac Nab.

President George W. Bush’s proposed 2005 defense budget earmarked millions of dollars for up-armored Humvees. Hundreds of others have already been approved for production this fiscal year, so AM General president and chief executive Jim Armour has been preparing for an increased workload to ultimately speed delivery of the Humvees to troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In 2000, the Army awarded a seven-year contract to AM General for the production of some 31,474 Humvees through 2007.

When the new Humvees leave the plant in Mishawaka, some of them go to O’Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt, a leading vehicle armoring firm near Cincinnati. Brownlee also visited this plant in Fairfield, Ohio, where the vehicles become up-armored Humvees, known as the M1114 version Humvee.

Roughly 3,500 up-armored Humvees have been produced to date and are being used in peacekeeping missions in Somalia, Haiti, the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq, O’Gara-Hess officials report.

The M1114 weighs about 2,000 pounds more than the standard Humvee and includes 200-pound steel-plated doors, steel plating under the cab and several layers of bonded, ballistic-resistant glass to replace zip-up plastic windows, said Jim Bussey, O’Gara-Hess project manager for engineering contracts.

The up-armored Humvees provide greater protection to Soldiers on military patrols and reconnaissance missions. The reinforced steel plating and ballistic-resistant windows provide increased protection from rocket-propelled grenades, small-arms fire, shrapnel and explosive devices and land mines, Bussey said.

While some employees at AM General and O’Gara-Hess had family members in Iraq and Afghanistan, many more said they knew someone whose son or daughter was on duty in harm’s way. And they knew all too well the importance of what they were doing to help save lives.

An up-armored Humvee on the factory floor at O’Gara- Hess –- the engine compartment a tangled maze of melted metal –- attests to the fact that steel reinforcement saves lives. Five Soldiers were riding in that Humvee in Afghanistan when it ran over a land mine, Bussey said. The Soldiers sustained only minor cuts and bruises because the up-armored cab remained totally intact.

If that wasn’t reason enough to validate what employees at the two plants are doing, Brownlee shared a personal Soldier story that underscored the importance of what America’s assembly plant workers are doing.

During one of his many visits to wounded Soldiers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., Brownlee met with the sole survivor of a grenade attack on four U.S. Soldiers in Baghdad.

The Soldier had lost a leg and eye in the attack, Brownlee said. He “flatlined” twice during his evacuation. And because his heart had stopped twice and he was generally unresponsive, his doctors feared he had suffered brain damage.

Brownlee spoke to him nonetheless, he said, and held his hand. “His face was covered with bandages,” Brownlee said. Just his right eye was exposed.

“There aren’t a lot of things you can say to Soldiers like that,” Brownlee said. But Brownlee thanked the man for his sacrifice and told him he’d check up on him in a few weeks. As he walked away, he turned to wave goodbye to the young man.

What the Soldier did next shocked Brownlee and a nurse who witnessed what happened: The Soldier sat up and gave Brownlee a perfect salute, he said.

“He lost an eye and a leg, but not his courage,” Brownlee said. “That’s the kind of Soldier you’re supporting today with the up-armored Humvees you’re building.”

And when someone asked him if he thinks we should be in Iraq, he says emphatically, “All you have to do is look into a Soldier’s eyes over there to know what we’re doing is right. They know why we’re there. And all of you can be proud of what you’re doing to help keep them safe.”

[centurion316]

ping

[Paul Ross]

Ping

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Thanks for the ping

[Cannoneer No. 4]

ping

[Cannoneer No. 4]

ping

[JasonC]

Until it runs off a road. Then it won't bog if it isn't armored, but will if it is, because the chassis was not designed for the extra weight, and 4 small tires do not provide the floation of tracks. And the 113s are better protected. They won't be used because it is too sensible and not "modernizing" enough.

It is a regular cycle. The army solves a problem. REMFs find the solution cumbersome to their own logistical problems, and don't use it. They provide substandard equipment instead, that makes their jobs easier but endangers soldiers. In peacetime nobody cares and they have their way. When war comes, their compromises are unacceptable and everyone scrambles to reinvent the wheel. While the reliable solution to the problem, already found long since, sits on the shelf as "outdated".

Over and over.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Every squad's driver complained of his M1114's floppy steering, juddering brakes, weak acceleration, and pachyderm width on Kosovo's ruined roads. Every driver also complained of the M1114's astonishing weight, citing a recent spate of cracked frames — just aft of the left-front wheel — as a consequence.

[JasonC]

Oh and then, pace the headline, they blame the people that solved the old problem, for the existence of their own self-inflicted new one. And then want to spend a few billion on half ass fixes that create their own lesser, secondary problems (like off road mobility in this case).

[Cannoneer No. 4]

One Lap of Kosovo

Reflections on not getting blown up while test-driving an 'up-armored' Humvee.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

M1114 HMMWV Up-Armored Armament Carrier

Specifications

Engine 6.5 liter Turbo Diesel 190hp

Transmission 4-Speed Automatic

Suspension Independent Double A-Frame

Brakes Hydraulic Power Disc Brakes

Maximum Speed 78 mph/125 kmh

Acceleration 0 to 30 mph (48 kmh) in 6.96 seconds

0 to 50 mph (80 kmh) in 17.84 seconds

Weight 12,100 lbs. / 5,489 lbs GVW

Range Up to 275 miles (443 km)

Grade Capability 40%

Side Slope Capability 30%

Other Full-time 4-Wheel Drive

Run-Flat Tires

130-inch Wheel Base

Air Transportable via C-130, C-141, and C-5

Accepts Mounted Armaments

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Keyword: Wheeled Armor