Pub smokers fume as Irish ban begins

The Guardian ^ | March 30, 2004 | John Waters

[ijcr]

Ireland smoke-free will never be at peace, to rather disrespectfully paraphrase the famous rhetorical avowal of its dead, non-smoking teetotaller patriot Padraic Pearse. Or so it seems right now, anyway, a matter of hours into what some are describing as a seismic cultural shift.

In recent weeks one felt that many of Ireland's smoking classes were in a state of outright denial at the impending introduction of Europe's first ban on smoking in the workplace. Now, facing into an era of smoke spies and freephone snitch lines, such hype seems to be rather less fanciful than at first appeared.

For here is a law that, like the civil war of 82 years ago, has set brother against brother. And it is in Ireland's pubs, the traditional repository of the hundred thousand welcomes, that the smoking ban finds its most contentious arena.

The lunchtime trade yesterday in the north-west tourist town of Carrick-on-Shannon, Co Leitrim, manifested the same complex range of divisions as exist everywhere else. At about 2pm, in the Poitin Stil, on Carrick's main street, a woman got up from her stool at the counter and announced that, in deference to the new regime, she now had to go outside for a fag.

A nearby supporter of the smoking ban, who later boasted that for 20 years he had specialised in drawing official attention to contraventions of smoking bans on trains and buses, urged her to embrace the new health-giving atmosphere and discount all thought of narrow personal inconvenience.

"Why must we be the guinea pigs of Europe?" the smoker demanded. "Why must we be first in line to demonstrate our subservience? This is all that cursed EU. If Hitler could have foreseen that it was this easy to bring the people of Europe to their knees, he might never have bothered going all around the houses!"

According to the manager of The Oarsman on Bridge Street, many tourists from places like Germany and the Netherlands have already pledged not to return to Ireland under a smoking ban.

The greatest indigenous incomprehension is likely to arise from the older clientele of the more traditional rural pub, where the same stools have been occupied by the same posteriors since Adam came of age. The idea that outside forces have intruded on what for many drinkers is a fundamental element of their recreational existence is one even the most ardent pro-ban bartenders do not look forward to trying to get across.

As a lifelong non-smoker, I find myself in an odd position. It arises, I believe, from more than the widespread belief that the smoking ban is the thin end of an insidious wedge which will enable the fun police to encroach on more and more aspects of our lives.

The ban, far from being a positive social instrument, will make social life that little bit weaker. Do I, as a non-smoker, have a right to dictate to my smoking fellow-citizens that they can only consort with me if they are prepared to see things my way?

What is most worrying about the debate is that it has ended, uniquely among bar-room debates, with a trophy being awarded. The non-smokers have won. I am not as happy about that as a year ago I thought I would be.

[ijcr]

"Why must we be first in line to demonstrate our subservience? This is all that cursed EU. If Hitler could have foreseen that it was this easy to bring the people of Europe to their knees, he might never have bothered going all around the houses!"

Wait until they vote on the Euro constitution...

[Happy2BMe]

Heheh .. I'll bet there are more than a few Irish tempers flaring about now.

Just think - an ENTIRE NATION can't smoke in public.

Talk about Political Correctness gone wild.

[Happy2BMe]

Tony Blair is pushing the Euro Constitution - hard.

[Protagoras]

Property rights in Europe have never been a top priority.

Sadly, in the new fascist America, they no longer are either.

[international american]

Socialism run amok!!

[Incorrigible]

It took two votes and a lot of government spending on advertising and scare tactics, but Ireland went back to being a mere province with the YES vote on the Nice Treaty in 2002. Now they get to be the "guinea pigs of Europe"!

And though this is from the Guardian (always suspect), the author has a fine way with words and is probably Irish don't you think?

[Happy2BMe]

You are aware aren't you that private property ownership has been outlawed in this country for many years.

Fail to pay your property taxes (taxes on something you SUPPOSEDLY ALREADY OWN AND HAVE BOUGHT AND PAID FOR and see if you still own that property.

Think about it.

[Lexington Green]

If you love freedom, you'll start smoking. Better Free than Smoke-Free.

[Protagoras]

That's the solution, repeal all property taxes.

Think about it.

[Happy2BMe]

"That's the solution - REPEAL all property taxes - THINK about it."

Oh, I have, and I do.

So does the United Nations . .

* * * *

The United Nations Wants to TAX you!

"Secretary General Boutros Boutros-Ghali ... urged the [UN] to consider imposing its own taxes to become less dependent on the United States...."

-Washington Times, January 16, 1996

Are you concerned that...
...numerous taxation schemes to finance the UN are being considered?

Economist James Tobin proposed in 1972 that the UN be the recipient of a tax of 0.05% on foreign exchange transactions. In 1993, the Ford Foundation produced Financing an Effective United Nations, a report containing recommendations that the UN tax airline traffic, shipping, and arms sales. In 1995, the UN-funded Commission on Global Governance suggested that the UN collect levies from those who use "flight lanes, sea lanes for ships, ocean fishing areas, and the electromagnetic spectrum." Ultimately, of course, the burden of all taxation falls on consumers.

Are you concerned that...
...a State Department study specifically proposed giving the UN taxing power and, ultimately, control of the world?

In 1962, the State Department financed a study entitled "A World Effectively Controlled by the United Nations." The report outlined what would be needed for such a total world government: "a mandatory universal membership," an ability to use "physical force," and "compulsory jurisdiction" of its courts. One of the UN's "principle features," stated the report, would be "enforceable taxing powers." (Emphasis added.)

Are you concerned that...
...no matter how much our nation gives, the UN will never be satisfied?

In addition to hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars in foreign aid, our nation has provided the UN with tens of billions more for its programs since 1945. Currently, U.S. contributions make up 25% of the UN's annual budget. But, in his May 2001 speech at Notre Dame University, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan complained with a typical anit-American attitude, "It is shameful that the United States ... should be one of the least generous in terms of helping the world's poor."

Are you concerned that...
...taxing authority would fuel an unaccountable UN Superstate?

Former UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali said of a UN tax: "We would no be under the daily financial will of member states who are unwilling to pay up." UN Founder Harlan Cleveland made the same point in Futures: Rather than relying on "the worn-out policy of year-to-year decisions by individual governments" (about how much to give the UN), "what's needed is a flow of funds for development which are generated automatically under international control." And there would be no Congress to limit the UN's appetite for your tax dollars!

The United Nations Wants to Take Your Land!
"Private land ownership ... contributes to social injustice.... Public control of land use is therefore indispensable."

- United Nations "Habitat I" Conference Report, 1976

[tdadams]

Irish pubs used to be one of the most lively and convivial places you could visit. I'm not so sure about that now. This impending ban came up in conversation often during my visit there and people are angry about this.

I'm especially interested in seeing the compliance rate in the Galtecht areas of the western western provinces. They already shun directives from Dublin. This is not likely to go over well there.

[Just another Joe]

Puff

[Right Wing Professor]

I had two Irish parents. Both smoked like chimneys. Both died, relatively young, of smoking-related illnesses. Of their five children, only one smokes, and he mostly does it in the pub.This will make it much easier for him to quit.

[annyokie]

ping!

[tdadams]

So we need the state to pass ever more restictive laws to help us kick our bad habits? No thanks, I prefer a free country.

[Just another Joe]

Civil disobedience of many things, not JUST smoking bans, is called for in more places than Ireland.

[freeeee]

I had two Irish parents. Both drank like fish. Both died, relatively young, of drinking-related illnesses. Of their five children, only one drinks, and he mostly does it in the pub. This will make it much easier for him to quit.

I had two Irish parents. Both ate like pigs. Both died, relatively young, of obesity-related illnesses. Of their five children, only one eats fast food, and he mostly does it in the drive-through. This will make it much easier for him to quit.

I had two Irish parents. Both sat around like sloths. Both died, relatively young, of sedentary-related illnesses. Of their five children, only one doesn't exercise, instead he mostly watches TV. This will make it much easier for him to exercise.

I had two Irish parents. Both...... etc..

And when we're done with this process (actually it never ends), you'll have the healthiest slaves government can make.

[Right Wing Professor]

So we need the state to pass ever more restictive laws to help us kick our bad habits?

Your right to pollute the atmosphere in public areas ends where my nose begins. Do you opppose all public health regulations, or just those affecting one particular type of health hazard?

[Right Wing Professor]

Question: does the government regulation of restaurants, to keep rat turtds and Salmonella out of your food, make you a slave?

[freeeee]

Your right to pollute the atmosphere in public areas ends where my nose begins.

Fine. No smoking in City Hall.

Pubs on the other hand are private establishments. The owner invites you, and you choose to enter. If you don't like the music, patrons, drinks, food or air you can choose to go elsewhere.