Posted on 03/30/2004 4:25:08 PM PST by MikeJ75
Treasury Secretary John Snow reignited the political argument over U.S. companies shipping jobs overseas Tuesday with comments that "outsourcing" was an integral part of a global trading system.
(Excerpt) Read more at mercurynews.com ...
To start with those Japanese could take all those Sony and Honda jobs back to japan. Japan has a stagnet economy and why should thousands of central ohio workers get high wages making Hondas when good japanese citizens could make those high wages.
And how about those high paid Michelin tire makers in Greenville South Carolina. They could be making furniture for minimum wage instead of auto workers wages if Michelin took their jobs back home where they belong.
All together we have about 6 million high paid industrial jobs out sourced by other nations to us. Some fools want to trade those jobs for the minimum wage jobs we export overseas.
How many people are stupid enough to see if we start preventing our jobs from being out sourced, then other nations will prevent out sourcing to us. WE have a lot more jobs out sourced to us than from us.
Germany has high unemployment. How about they take all those Daimler Chrysler jobs an move them to Germany where the Germans obviously think they belong.
If we are stupid enough to start an outsourcing war, we will be the giant loser. Six million high paying jobs will go down the drain!. They will be relaced by 3 million low paying jobs... And won't that be nice. The 3 million out of work suckers can just deal with it... After all we won't be out sourcing jobs.
Of couse our companies will have to find a way to compete or they will lose all the business to importers. The easiest way to to not bring the jobs back, but just import the goods to the us and have US firms become marketing organizations and not manufacturers.
Or do we really think that if we prevent out sourcing by our companies other nations will not follow suit and prevent outsourcing to the USA. We out source for low wages. NO international company outsources to us for low wages.
And losing 6 million high paying jobs to get 3 million low paying jobs is one of the Dumbest ideas of the last 10,000 years. That means we will most likely do it.
Its not a you are for it or you are against it kind of argument. Its not that kind of argument at all.
No offense, but with that being the case, try to post something more along the lines of the debate.
Its easy to try and draw a line in the sand, or better yet, draw a line for someone else in the sand (which is what your post essentially is), but dodging is not talking about the issue.
Right now we have more bad than good going on.
Bush has never pretended that he was not a globalist, nor did his father ever try to present himseld in any other way. That is the one thing that separates him from the Democrats who pretend that they are not globaist be are even worse for they want political integration as well as economic integration. We cannot call Bush cagey or dishonest. We can call him wrong headed. The truth is that the "moderates" on bioth sides of the ailse are all globaists. It will not change ntil their jobs are threatened.
Reagan's administration was the last administration where the globalist were held in check.
Thats not a bad thing though...
The original plan though has long since been changed and distorted. Which is bad...
If we had stuck with the original plan very few would be complaining.
The only salient issue that Kerry and the Rats have to clobber Bush with is the jobs/outsourcing/economy conundrum. It's bad enough that Bush has to deal with it but to have idiots like Snow and Mankiw throwing gasoline on the fire, handing the issue to the Rats on a silver platter to clobber Bush with, is just too much to take.
For a White House that is supposed to be so politically savvy (to hear it told), they sure are the height of idiocy to send these clowns out there to cut the throat of the campaign. I'm beginning to wonder if they are not Rat plants.
The heck it aint'
You don't refute my arguments you just declare them invalid. That is amusing.
As long as we allow free imports, the question is not where the products are made or which workers make them. The question is who owns the Companies that make them. Do you really think that if we ordered American companies not to make things overseas, our consumers would pay more for the American made product rathert than buy imports?
Look Walmart in the eye and tell me they would.
Or would the products still be made overseas by a foreign company and then imported into the USA. The US firm would just shut down becuase they could not compete.
The only way to stop the foreign manufacture of goods that can be make cheaper overseas is to enact high tariffs to make the imported goods cost more than US made goods.
We tried that in the late 1920s with the Smoot Hawley tariffs. OUr imports went to near zero and our exports did too. The opponents of Smoot Hawley said it would cause the worst depression in history. No one much believed them and the Smoot Hawley tarrifs were enacted.
Then came the great depression. The supporters of Smoot Hawley said there was not a connection. But 30 percent unemployment in the USA said otherwise.
It is dangerous for two reasons: 1) the need public debate about this will be postponed thus further weakening our economy, and 2) Things will just get worse under the GOP's watch if Bush is reelected and the GOP holds the Hill. Then we can sit back and watch the whole GOP go down in flames for another generation and take down the conservative movement with it.
What is really ironic is that globalism was never a part of the conservative movement. Lie down with dogs - expect to get fleas. (my apologies to the dogs of the world, just a colloquial saying I am using for resonance; You are altogether much nicer "people" than gloabaists could ever hope to be. Perhaps I should have said "lie down with jackals.")
Do you really think that if we ordered American companies not to make things overseas, our consumers would pay more for the American made product rathert than buy imports?
Is that your point? Are you trying to argue that I, or almost anyone else here is trying to make the case that that is what we should do?
If you are you are wrong. No one is arguing that. No one is making that case. Thats why I say again, get back on topic and lets talk about the issues.
There are several here that are making up an issue. You 'argument' quoted above is sheerly making up an argument.
You are not talking to me with that, thats for sure. You can't say that kind of stuff to me, because its irrelevant. That is an irrelevant point.
I don't post on this topic that much merely because people ignore the point and talk past others without talking about what needs to be talked about.
Its not an open and shut case. Never has been. Trade has to be analyzed on a case by case, and nation by nation basis.
Am I for cutting off trade? NOOOO. Never have been. I think the Singapore trade deal is good. I also think NAFTA is good. FTAs are great things. That being said, not all of our trade relations are healthy.
Whats good for Wal Mart can be and sometimes is very bad for everyone else.
1. What is a healthy trading relationship like? Give real tangible criteria. Describe it for me.
Break it down into parts...
Effective communication is necessary for Bush administration officials to get their message across. One has to first reach people, touch their hearts so that your message can be received, not rejected.
Mr. Snow reminds me of an ineffective preacher who screams at a crowd of non-believers, You're going to hell! Of course, such a message would be rejected by the listeners. The gospel must be preached in love and in a form that would make the listener receptive. Paul the Apostle said that he bacame all things to all people so that he would find common ground with them. He sculpted his message differently when he spoke to Jews than when he spoke to Greeks. This is a type of communication for Bush officials to emulate.
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