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To: mojomoto
You're right. We're in Iraq to help them, but this isn't an exercise in turning the other cheek, etc.. If we simply let it go and repair the electricity, water, etc., despite continued attacks...and there will be more bombings and atrocities because they know this gets America's attention...and that it might bring down Bush, or drive us from Iraq(as in Somalia), then we merely invite more horror.

The town's population isn't Christian, nor do they read the Bible. They won't take forebearance on our part as anything but weakness. The one thing they understand is force, unfortunately. So we have to take a practical view of the situation and decide what outcome we desire, which is of course, pacification. It isn't childish or unAmerican or inhumane to take practical measures to bring about peace. Presumably the marines are saying to those sheiks in Fallujah, "Look, we can be your best friend, or we can be your worst enemy. You choose. This is your last chance." Then give them 48 hours to hand over those who committed these atrocities. If they don't cooperate, then we cut off the electricity and water for a few hours every night,(it gets hot and uncomfortable), put a cordon around the town and don't let anyone in or out.

We don't kill innocent women or children, but if you've seen those pictures, it was teenagers who burned, mutilated those corpses, dragged them through town and hung them from that bridge. Their pictures will be at every military checkpoint, and they should be caught and dealt with in a public way...to deter copycat behavior. I don't think we should kill these kids, but we should deal with them in a way that makes such behavior unimaginable. Putting them in an Iraqi jail is problematical, however. Once June arrives and we hand over power to the Iraqis, their govt. could set them free and hold a big parade just to rub our noses in it.

Iraq's problem is tribal govt. (Forget the fact that some are crazed, medieval minded religious fascists). They don't think of themselves primarily as Iraqis. They think of themselves as Shiites or Sunnis or Bathists, and emotions rule, not logic. Democracy is a very sophisticated concept. You have to agree to yield power, albeit temporarily, to whomever wins elections. Sometimes this is messy. Bad guys can steal votes, win elections, and take power. You can either go with the flow until the next election, or hold a revolution and seize power.(The way South America and Mexico conducted democracy for most of the last 100 years.)

We're transplanting democracy to a part of the world that needs it desperately. It's the only way to bring these people into the modern era, where they can enjoy viable economies, get a decent job, live meaningful lives, feel good about themselves, and not focus on hating all of western civilization and esp. America because you don't have any other reason to get up in the morning. (Europe has a big problem since they're being outbred by their Muslim population. You can fill in the blanks...obviously, their native, Christian-even-if-in-name-only-population will be outvoted someday.) We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Okay, so that's our game plan: Bringing Iraq into the 21st century. Some have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, i.e., Fallujah. We give them a chance to cooperate, then we make life unpleasant until they do, and we don't allow cameras and the press in when we clamp down. If our foreign policy is driven by hysteria, by hand-wringing, liberal columnists who hate us and want Bush to fail and be driven from office, then we've already lost. We might as well hand over the keys to America to the UN.

This is a war against terror. It'll take a long time, and we will win in the end. What happened in Fallujah isn't a horrible example of how war can go wrong. If we simply waged war, we'd have wiped out Fallujah's malcontents months ago. But we've complicated things by deciding to do a bit of nation-building in the middle of waging war, and it's not easy. We won't be driven from Iraq by a bunch of homicidal maniacs, but we must make sure this doesn't happen again. (Because the rest of the Arab world is watching and taking notes.) We have to crack down hard. The solution is somewhere between 'Carthage delenda est', leveling the town, killing everyone, and sowing the ground with salt...and simply arresting whomever we can catch and putting them in an Iraqi jail. It has to be harsh enough to get their attention and make them decide not to fool around with Americans ever again. And we should take measures against those weasly stringer photographers in bed with the terrorists and show up with cameras at the ready before bombs explode. Presumably, the marines know what to do and are already doing it.
497 posted on 04/02/2004 4:02:10 PM PST by hershey
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To: hershey
i think you express ideas that are possibly helpful. but i think our time in iraq has already shown that overwhelming force will only turn the population more against us. your implication that because these people are not christian they understand nothing but force is simply not accurate. an occupied population does not want to understand anything. they want to be left alone. in the end i think the best thing we can do is let the iraqi police go after the people who did it, ie fired the rocket gernades and automatic weapons. difficult as that will be i think it is preferable to shutting off any amount of the water until they give these people up. history shows that this will add resolve to the subdued population. a superior force cannot avenge atrocities perpetrated against it by punishing the occupied population at large. i say again, it will not work. counterinsurgency theory is all over this. the only thing that will work is to find the people responsible in an orchestrated and humane manner. and if this fails to produce the criminals then we have to be willing to accept that these deaths may never see justice. being the occupying and superior power we need to show the foresight and compassion to accept this.
you should also understand that this is these peoples home and some of them, however disillusioned will continue to fight for it against an occupier even after you have called them every name in the book and vowed vengence.
you say the towns population does not read the bible, but i would guess that the average person in fallujah is much more familiar with the koran than most americans. have you ever deigned to read the koran or any part of it? it is not a text urging the faithful to destroy the christians. it is a series of teachings and parables with many of the same stories as the old testament.
you also say we dont kill innocent women and children. you may want to add "on purpose" because it certainly has happened in this war and every one that came before and every one that will come after.
i sincerely hope that our mission to "bring iraq into the 21st century" is something that every good christian supports. but i know they dont.
you say this is a war against terror. this, according to the us governments own definition is nearly impossible in iraq. any iraqi fighting the u.s. in iraq is by definition not a terrorist, though foreign fighters would be. so the war on terror is not being fought in iraq. in fact i think the warr in iraq, however justified, is largely seperate from the war on terror. that war cannot be won on the battlefield. that is a topic for another day...
499 posted on 04/03/2004 11:50:06 AM PST by mojomoto (the greatest prize is yet to come)
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