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The Children of Ishmael
New American Bible | 2500BC | Moses

Posted on 04/01/2004 10:33:12 AM PST by vanmorrison

Genesis: Chapter 16 Verses 1-16

/Abram’s wife Sarai had borne him no children. She had, however, an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar. Sarai said to Abram: "The LORD has kept me from bearing children. Have intercourse, then, with my maid; perhaps I shall have sons through her." Abram heeded Sarai's request. Thus, after Abram had lived ten years in the land of Canaan, his wife Sarai took her maid, Hagar the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his concubine. He had intercourse with her, and she became pregnant./

/When she became aware of her pregnancy, she looked on her mistress with disdain. So Sarai said to Abram: "You are responsible for this outrage against me. I myself gave my maid to your embrace; but ever since she became aware of her pregnancy, she has been looking on me with disdain. May the LORD decide between you and me!" Abram told Sarai: "Your maid is in your power. Do to her whatever you please." Sarai then abused her so much that Hagar ran away from her./

/The LORD'S messenger found her by a spring in the wilderness, the spring on the road to Shur, and he asked, "Hagar, maid of Sarai, where have you come from and where are you going?" She answered, "I am running away from my mistress, Sarai." But the LORD'S messenger told her: "Go back to your mistress and submit to her abusive treatment. I will make your descendants so numerous," added the LORD'S messenger, "that they will be too many to count. Besides," the LORD'S messenger said to her: "You are now pregnant and shall bear a son; you shall name him Ishmael, For the LORD has heard you, God has answered you. He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone, and everyone's hand against him; In opposition to all his kin shall he encamp."/

/To the LORD who spoke to her she gave a name, saying, "You are the God of Vision"; she meant, "Have I really seen God and remained alive after my vision?" That is why the well is called Beer-lahai-roi. It is between Kadesh and Bered. Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram named the son whom Hagar bore him Ishmael. Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael./


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: islam; scripture
The Moslems, who call themselves "the Children of Ishmael", will be responsible for Armageddon.
1 posted on 04/01/2004 10:33:13 AM PST by vanmorrison
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To: vanmorrison
Probably. But let's just make sure it occurs over there and not over here.
2 posted on 04/01/2004 10:36:03 AM PST by BJClinton (France has elevated their threat level from "run" to "hide".)
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To: vanmorrison
With China's help.
3 posted on 04/01/2004 10:36:45 AM PST by Hoosier-Daddy (It's a fight to the death with Democrats.)
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To: vanmorrison
Heaven and earth shall pass away. But the word of God is eternal.
4 posted on 04/01/2004 10:37:05 AM PST by shineon
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To: vanmorrison
"He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone, and everyone's hand against him; In opposition to all his kin shall he encamp."
5 posted on 04/01/2004 10:38:37 AM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: vanmorrison
I believe the battle of Armageddon takes place just prior to the 1,000 year reign of Christ as depicted in Rev. 19.
I believe that those who follow the devil are those who try to take up arms against Jesus. They might not just be muslim, but those who have been under the influence and power of the anti-christ.
6 posted on 04/01/2004 10:44:41 AM PST by truthingod
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: vanmorrison
In Revelations, the Bible speaks about Gog and Magog. Scholars interpret that as Russia.
8 posted on 04/01/2004 10:53:54 AM PST by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: vanmorrison
So, as I read this, today's Muslims are the ba**ard sons of Jews!
9 posted on 04/01/2004 10:57:24 AM PST by Tacis
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To: vanmorrison
All the more reason why men should never multiply wives or scorn children.
10 posted on 04/01/2004 11:11:12 AM PST by cyborg (Frankenfreude radio death watch has commenced)
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To: Tacis
No. It wasn't bastardy. It was a custom at the time that the children of a woman's maidservants could be considered the children of the woman, herself. Also, men were allowed more than one wife or concubine. The arrangement was "legal."

Sarai (Sarah) -- eventually had Isaac, who had Jacob, who was renamed "Israel." Israel had 12 sons, including Judah. The "Jews" are from Judah's tribe. The "House of Israel" includes all 12 tribes.

The Arabs descended from Hagar and Ishmael. So the Jews and the Arabs are cousins.

The yearly Haaj reenacts Hagar wandering in the wilderness and being rescued from death by an angel. Thus, every year the Muslims remind themselves how Sarah, the mother of the Jews, mistreated the mother of the Arabs.

Also, as the eldest son, Ishmael would have had the birthright. But the birthright went to Isaac, the favored son of Abraham's beloved wife. Thus, the Muslims still occasionally refer to the Jews as "birthright stealers."

The world is now entirely caught up in the fight that started in Genesis. It kind of gives you a sense of things coming full circle, doesn't it?

But, we shouldn't forget that the Arabs are the literal fulfillment of God's promises to Hagar. I keep wondering how God intends to resolve all of this.
11 posted on 04/01/2004 11:13:31 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: Tacis
LOL, one way of looking at it!
12 posted on 04/01/2004 11:14:46 AM PST by StoneColdGOP (McClintock - In Your Heart, You Know He's Right)
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To: lilylangtree
Do tell...

13 posted on 04/01/2004 11:16:28 AM PST by evets (God bless president George W. Bush)
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To: lady lawyer
"I keep wondering how God intends to resolve all of this."

Boom.

14 posted on 04/01/2004 11:19:05 AM PST by knarf (A place where anyone can learn anything ... especially that which promotes clear thinking.)
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To: Tacis
So, as I read this, today's Muslims are the ba**ard sons of Jews!

Although Abraham was an ancestor of the Jews, he himself wasn't Jewish. He and his brothers Nahor and Haran were from Ur of the Chaldees.

The Israelites were descendants of Abraham's grandson Jacob, whose father was Isaac, whose half-brother was Ishmael. Ishmael predates the Jewish people and isn't an ancestor of the children of Jacob, renamed "Israel" by the God of his father and grandfather.

If that isn't unclear enough, some scholars differentiate between Israelites and Jews, ascribing the term "Jews" exclusively to descendants of Jacob's son Judah. Jacob had eleven other sons and some believe that their descendants comprise a group of people known as "Israelites," who eventually went into captivity and lost their identities.

15 posted on 04/01/2004 11:24:18 AM PST by Chunga
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To: vanmorrison
"......you shall name him Ishmael.........He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone, and everyone's hand against him; In opposition to all his kin shall he encamp."

This is so obvious as to be inarguable.

The principle of the illegitimate always trying to persecute the legitimate is seen throughout human history.

16 posted on 04/01/2004 11:38:22 AM PST by nightdriver
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To: Chunga
"Although Abraham was an ancestor of the Jews, he himself wasn't Jewish."

It would appear that the founding ethnicity of the Israelis is Syrian, ("...a Syrian and ready to perish was my father.." Deuteronomy 26:5, speaking about Israel.)

That would indicate that the ethnicity of the arabs would be half Syrian, half Egyptian.

That would mean that the middle east hassle is, in reality, a family affair!

17 posted on 04/01/2004 11:51:02 AM PST by nightdriver
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To: evets
Good Map - Rosh (the head) was Russia and is also named Meshek and Tubal Moscow--From an earlier reading: (I forget the source, but I believe from "The Testimony of the Antichrist"

2. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISAAC AND ISHMAEL
In the Koran, the followers of Mohammed are instructed to say:
"We believe in God, and that which has been sent down on us, and sent down on Abraham and Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob, and the Tribes, and in that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and the prophets, of their Lord; we make no division between [distinction among] any of them, and to Him we surrender."
Surah III (1)
Fast students of the Bible will recognize the subtle introduction of Ishmael into the lineage of those who received the covenant of God. They will recall that Ishmael was the son of Abraham and Hagar --- the handmaid, or bondswoman, of Sarah. They will remember that, concerning Ishmael, it was prophesied through the angel of the Lord: "he will be a wild man (or, closer to the Hebrew, "a wild ass of a man"); his hand will be against every man, and every man's against him" (Genesis 6:12). And they will remember that it was through Isaac that God was to establish His Covenant, not through Ishmael (see Genesis 17:18-22). In reality, Ishmael and Hagar were to become outcasts --- banished by Abraham with God's approval (Genesis 21:9-12). That Ishmael was disinherited is reaffirmed when God later commands Abraham to take his "only son" Isaac (Genesis 22: 2, 12, and 16). After banishment, Ishmael is mentioned little more than in genealogies (Genesis 25:9-17 and 1 Chronicles 1:28-31) and in his alliance with the disinherited son of Isaac, Esau --- which alliance is signified through the marriage of Esau to Mahalath, Ishmael's daughter (Genesis 28:9).
God said plainly: "I WILL ESTABLISH MY COVENANT WITH HIM (Isaac) FOR AN EVERLASTING COVENANT, AND WITH HIS SEED AFTER HIM" (Genesis 17:19); "MY COVENANT WILL I ESTABLISH WITH ISAAC" (Genesis 17:21); and, "LET IT NOT BE GRIEVOUS IN THY [Abraham's] SIGHT BECAUSE OF THE LAD [Ishmael], AND BECAUSE OF THE BONDWOMAN... FOR IN ISAAC SHALL THY SEED BE CALLED" (Genesis 21:12). Yet, in spite of all that is recorded, Mohammed attempts to vindicate and elevate Ishmael's status:
"And we [the word 'we' in the Koran is often used to denote Allah speaking] made covenant with Abraham and Ishmael . . ."
Surah II (2)
"And mention in the Book Ishmael; he was true to his promise, and he was a Messenger, a Prophet. He bade his people to pray and give alms, and he was pleasing to his Lord."
Surah XIX (3)
Today, partly because of such false justifications, all Moslems proudly call upon Abraham as their progenitor through Ishmael. They have accepted the teaching of Mohammed that:
"No; Abraham in truth was not a Jew, neither a Christian; but he was a Muslim and one pure of faith . . ."
Surah III (4)
"O men, bow you down and prostrate yourselves, and serve your Lord, and do good; haply so you shall prosper; and struggle for God as is His due, for He has chosen you, and has laid on you no impediment in your religion, being the creed of your father Abraham; He named you Muslims aforetime and in this, that the Messenger might be a witness against you, and that you might be witnesses against mankind."
Surah XXII (5)
Hear now what the Apostle Paul had to say concerning Isaac and Ishmael:
"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar [Hagar]. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above us is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freeman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free."
Galatians 4:22-31
I believe that the allegory which Paul cited is a far greater figure of things than most people think. I believe it not only helps us to understand such things as spiritual freedom and bondage and the persecution which the spiritually-minded must suffer at the hand of the carnally-minded, but that the allegory also provides Christians with the key to a final separation amongst the children of men, --- a separation between those who believe on the one who came in the Father's name and those who believe on the one who came in his own name.
18 posted on 04/01/2004 11:51:39 AM PST by richardtavor (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem in the name of the G-d of Jacob)
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To: vanmorrison
bump
19 posted on 04/01/2004 3:51:54 PM PST by NorseWood
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To: vanmorrison
BTTT
20 posted on 04/01/2004 3:56:02 PM PST by Fiddlstix (This Space Available for Rent or Lease by the Day, Week, or Month. Reasonable Rates. Inquire within.)
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To: vanmorrison
Thus, every year the Muslims remind themselves how Sarah, the mother of the Jews, mistreated the mother of the Arabs.

While conveniently forgetting that she brought it upon herself, with her "despising" of Serai.

Also, as the eldest son, Ishmael would have had the birthright. But the birthright went to Isaac, the favored son of Abraham's beloved wife. Thus, the Muslims still occasionally refer to the Jews as "birthright stealers."

Again, conveniently "forgetting" that Haggar & Ishmael were acting in such a way as to severely alarm Serai concerning the safety of the 'child of the promise,' young Isaac.

Then again, the Locust Army has to come from somewhere; and has to have what it sees as adequate justification to function as such.
21 posted on 04/01/2004 6:53:49 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: Tacis

No - not exactly. Ishmael was illegitimate, because Abraham was not married to Hagar, but the Jews began with Jacob, not Abraham. Jacob’s 12 sons are the 12 tribes of Israel.


22 posted on 04/11/2008 6:52:32 AM PDT by avedar
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To: avedar
Abram was MARRIED to Hagar in Genesis chapter 16 verse 3 “Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in Canaan, an gave her to her husband Abram to be his WIFE.

You should study the translation language of the old and ancient right history. And then find out who and why the authors you study under translated the way they did.

Let's Get rid of prejudice's and when you do then you will get to know the true Creator of All Universes and All known and Unknown Creation's. The One who breathes its breath through you so you my live to enjoy its creations. So continue in JOY...(that is another creation that was given to us...).

23 posted on 06/04/2008 8:13:36 PM PDT by Nyy Ph t
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To: vanmorrison

The Muslims, more accurately the Arabian Bedouin tribes from which Islam sprang, may call themselves the Children of Ishmael all they want, but they have no genetic relationship at all except through Jews they may have impregnated during their centuries-long rape of the Middle East.


24 posted on 06/04/2008 8:27:01 PM PDT by aruanan
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