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At the Divinity School, passionate talk of 'The Passion of the Christ'(Harvard Barf-caption time)
harvard.edu ^

Posted on 04/01/2004 9:38:55 PM PST by chance33_98

At the Divinity School, passionate talk of 'The Passion of the Christ'

Gibson film panned by religious scholars



By Beth Potier Harvard News Office

The Harvard Divinity School (HDS) faculty members and guests who gathered Thursday (March 18) to discuss the much-talked-about new film "The Passion of the Christ" dissented only in their choice of adjectives.

Deeply sadistic," said Robert Orsi, Warren Professor of the History of Religion in America. "Disturbing," he continued. "Militaristic."

"Pornographic," added Ellen Aitken, assistant professor of the New Testament, with biting contempt.

"Obscene" and "blasphemous," panelist and writer James Carroll wrote in an op-ed in The Boston Globe Feb. 24.

"Overwhelmingly bad news," said Harvey Cox, Hollis Professor of Divinity. "A celebration of apocalyptic violence."

From the over-the-top violence of the film, directed by Mel Gibson, to its infidelity to the Gospels from which it draws its narrative to its portrayal of Jews, the panel - rounded out by Frothingham Professor of the History of Religion François Bovon and moderator Kevin Madigan, assistant professor of the history of Christianity - unanimously condemned "The Passion." In the lively panel and discussion that followed, they presented reasons scholarly, political, spiritual, and visceral to loathe the film that has been a box office winner since its release.

Orsi reminded the audience of the film's inspiration, in the passion plays that re-create Christ's last days on Earth, performed by religious communities around the world. "I find myself thinking of Palm Sundays in the Bronx," he said, recalling his own Italian-Catholic heritage. Yet unlike his own experience with passion plays, which involved the church congregation by having them shout, "Crucify him!", this film distances its viewers from any sense of responsibility.

Orsi also expressed concern that the film connected violence and power in Christianity in a way that is especially disturbing in an era of increasing aggression in the name of religion, Christian and other. "I'm worried about how this movie is going to play around the world," he said. "What does it say about American culture? What does it say about Christianity?"

Us vs. them, then and now

Musing on the "shockingly positive reaction" the film has elicited from a broad audience, Carroll, a prize-winning writer and Roman Catholic, linked "The

Passion of the Christ" to the current political scene. He read from the epilogue of his forthcoming book "Crusade: The Chronicles of an Unjust War," a reckoning of the past several years' war on terrorism and in Iraq, suggesting that the film's appeal derives in part from its dramatization of George W. Bush's "us versus them" spirit and its simplification of the complexity of good and evil.

Carroll voiced further concern about the film's playing out of Gibson's own theological convictions. The son of a man who denies the Holocaust, Gibson himself is, said Carroll, a "Holocaust minimizer" and a Catholic who rejects the reforms of Vatican II, which called for an end to blaming Jews for the death of Christ.

"Gibson's bloody film celebrates the violence of the Crusades, then and now, making it a big-screen icon version of George W. Bush's war," said Carroll. "Its celebration of contempt for Jews is not incidental here, since for every victim, there has to be a victimizer, and Jews have long played that role in the Western imagination."

Cox, who is teaching a course on fundamentalism this semester, rescinded his requirement that his students view the film after he saw it. "In fact, I would advise that you not see it," he told them in an e-mail.

This is more a reflection of the signs of our times than it is a reflection of biblical times," he said. "It's a celebration of apocalyptic violence in the interest of purification." In the era of "shock and awe" and weapons of mass destruction, he said, "the idea of purification by apocalyptic violence is terribly dangerous."

The Gospels according to Gibson

Several panelists slung scholarly barbs at "The Passion of the Christ," including Aitkin, who noted that its biblical and historical missteps augmented some of the film's most objectionable aspects. The film's interpretation of the Bible's passion narratives ignore the Old Testament Scripture quotations that run through the Gospels, she said.

The result of this, she said, is a breakdown of the connection between the passion narratives and the heritage of Israel. "It is another way of erasing Israel from the story," she said.

She also noted the anachronistic absence of the Greek language in the film, which features only Latin and the ancient Semitic language of Aramaic. In reality, she said, Greek and other languages, such as dialects of Egyptian, would have been spoken. "It not only makes the movie completely historically false, but it also creates an ethnic polarity between the civilized people, who speak Latin ... and these others," she said, enhancing the "us versus them" political slant Carroll noted.

Although Gibson claimed "The Passion of the Christ" remains true to the history of the Gospels, Bovon pointed out that this might be a hollow claim. "The Gospels are history and interpretation," he said. "The Gospels are not our best sources to the history of the passion of Jesus."

"The problem is that much of this stuff in the movie is in the Gospels," countered Cox. "It's read every Good Friday in churches." The film may push Christians, he said, to scrutinize what he called "these terrible passages" of canonical sources.

The panel filled the Sperry Room of HDS's Andover Hall beyond capacity, and the panelists' remarks sparked lively questions and comments from the audience members. Such discussion and reflection may be, said Cox, the film's most positive legacy.

"This is an opportunity for re-education," he said, admitting he was grasping for a silver lining in the dark storm cloud of "The Passion of the Christ." "I hope it isn't lost."


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: harvard; religiousleft; thepassion

1 posted on 04/01/2004 9:38:56 PM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
Strange body language in those pictures. The men are all fingering their faces.

So which one of these self-caressers is the atheist James Carroll?
2 posted on 04/01/2004 9:46:07 PM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: chance33_98
Although Gibson claimed "The Passion of the Christ" remains true to the history of the Gospels, Bovon pointed out that this might be a hollow claim. "The Gospels are history and interpretation," he said. "The Gospels are not our best sources to the history of the passion of Jesus."

Very, very strange statement. If the Gospels are not our best sources to the history of the passion of Jesus, what is?? The dude never answers that, because his answer would be laughable.
3 posted on 04/01/2004 9:46:07 PM PST by fqued
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4 posted on 04/01/2004 9:46:56 PM PST by Support Free Republic (Don't be a nuancy boy)
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To: fqued
If the Gospels are not our best sources to the history of the passion of Jesus, what is??

Why, one of Bovon's books, of course...

5 posted on 04/01/2004 9:47:50 PM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: hellinahandcart
The first pic
6 posted on 04/01/2004 9:48:58 PM PST by chance33_98 (Shall a living man complain? Oh how much fewer are my sufferings than my sins;)
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To: chance33_98
LOL. The one in the prayerful pose.
7 posted on 04/01/2004 9:52:02 PM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: chance33_98
Where is the BARF ALERT?
8 posted on 04/01/2004 10:00:21 PM PST by Agent Smith
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To: Agent Smith
Not enough space in title, and most anything with Harvard and Religion is Auto Barf :)
9 posted on 04/01/2004 10:01:08 PM PST by chance33_98 (Shall a living man complain? Oh how much fewer are my sufferings than my sins;)
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To: chance33_98
I think a "multiple dry heave alert" might be more appropriate.

Based upon this article my concise, scholarly review of the Harvard Divinity School is as follows: REPROBATE AND UNREGENERATE.
10 posted on 04/01/2004 10:23:44 PM PST by bereanway
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To: hellinahandcart
I'd like to see this movie, because I think Mel Gibson finally has it right. The most apt criticism of Gibson's American Revolution movie: Mel Gibson suffers through the American Revolution, so you don't have to. Gibson also suffers beautifully through We Were Soldiers, but breaks character at the end, where he goes wishy washy.

Yes, Mel Gibson suffers magnificently. The movie with him as a preacher in the corn fields, where his wife gets cut in half by a Pakistani veterinarian, and a single space alien appears for the climax , was so painful -- that when that movie's parody appeared, audiences almost died laughing.

Crucifixion is no joke. So, if Gibson can pass on his gift of suffering to another actor -- where suffering took place indeed -- there should be some exceptional suffering. It's what Mel Gibson does best. But I hear "they're" re-releasing the movie, the Life of Brian (no kidding). Comic relief after the corn? I hope not.
11 posted on 04/01/2004 10:25:55 PM PST by chickens (I am professional grade (everyone says so)
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To: chance33_98
I had Harvard as a customer in a past life. So, I was attuned to Harvard "news".

I recall the Harvard Divinity Schoolhaving some sort of "art" exhibit with condoms.

Other than some religions having dictates or strong opinions about conception and preventing conception, to what end
did HDS prick traditional teachings with such an exhibit?

I ask this since their interpretation of "art" is the use of condoms as a medium, I'm supposed to really care about
their opinion of serious take on a religious and historical event?

12 posted on 04/01/2004 10:50:02 PM PST by Calvin Locke
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To: chance33_98
"The problem is that much of this stuff in the movie is in the Gospels," countered Cox. "It's read every Good Friday in churches." The film may push Christians, he said, to scrutinize what he called "these terrible passages" of canonical sources.

Man, that's some kind of a divinity school. It's been taken over by anti-Christians.

13 posted on 04/01/2004 11:08:39 PM PST by TheMole
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To: fqued
If the Gospels are not our best sources to the history of the passion of Jesus, what is??

The NYSlimes, of course. Or Disney. Maybe Karl Marx.

I thought one foreign language was a pain, let alone three, and they're whining over the absence of Greek???

Their sort of discussion is more suitable for Camelot High (i.e., Kennedy School of Gov't), than a divinity school. Or any collegiate level discussion, for that matter.

Heck, Hollywood script writers could come up with better and more on topic, and more consistent arguments than that assembled panel.

14 posted on 04/01/2004 11:10:10 PM PST by Calvin Locke
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To: hellinahandcart
James Carroll is the son of an Air Force general. He hid in seminary school during the Vietnam War, then dropped out when it was safe to begin a new life attacking the Catholic Church and the American military.

James Carroll is intellectual and moral pond scum, who writes a regular column for the Boston Globe.

15 posted on 04/02/2004 12:08:22 AM PST by My Dog Likes Me
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To: TheMole
One of the deans at the Harvard Divinity School was fired a few years ago for having a huge amount of downloaded child porn on his office computer. So much, in fact, that the computer crashed and he called the department I.T. guy to "fix his computer."

The I.T. guy determined what the "problem" was, and turned the dean in. There followed a big debate on campus about the role of the department computer guys, and if they should turn people into the cops for stuff that they come across, blah blah.

16 posted on 04/02/2004 12:18:54 AM PST by My Dog Likes Me
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To: chance33_98
"The problem is that much of this stuff in the movie is in the Gospels," countered Cox. "It's read every Good Friday in churches." The film may push Christians, he said, to scrutinize what he called "these terrible passages" of canonical sources.

This passage shows exactly why these guys are so steamed at Gibson. They had this plan to re-write the Gospels to absolve the Sanhedrin of any responsiblity for the death of Christ. Then (as they see it) along comes some irresponsible nitwit of an actor and not only does he make a film eggregiously faithful to the Gospels, he finances it himself, with the result that no outsiders have any control at all. Well, no wonder their buns are burning. They had this long term plan to discredit the Gospels by labeling them anti-Semitic and petty-boy Gibson just waltzes right in and blows their Gospel-lite rewrite clean out of the water.

17 posted on 04/02/2004 12:29:33 AM PST by DentsRun
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To: DentsRun
I think you would like this article. It is the best one I have ever seen on the passion, on WHY they hate it so much - very much on what you touched on.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1093798/posts?page=2

By the way, did you ever read the Great Divorce by CS Lewis - about the liberal theologian on the bus from Hell trying to get into heaven, but goes back because no one will listen to him. It's one of my all time favorite books.
18 posted on 04/02/2004 1:00:24 AM PST by I still care (If Kerry was Pres in 1991, Saddam would be in Kuwait today, cutting off our oil)
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To: chance33_98

"This is terrible! People think that good versus evil is a clear issue. Of course it is all really muddled on what we--the Harvard elite say it is! And Mel Gibson did not follow the Bible exactly for his script--so I want to slam him about that. What? Do I think the Bible should be taken literally? Well...err...no--not really! I mean--that part about homosexuality being an abomination and all that--throw that part out. Hey, listen pal--I have the word Divinity as in "Harvard Divinity School" written on my resume and on my business cards--so don't mess with me!

19 posted on 04/02/2004 2:20:09 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: chance33_98
While I can't say I liked the movie, mainly because of the way it was filmed, these goons couldn't be more wrong when it comes to the film's content and realism. I went to really cast a critical eye on the film and rather than finding it anti-semetic I found it very very even handed when it came to presenting on one hand some of the religiously powerful and on the other hand those who either followed Jesus or tried to stand up for Him against a sea of evil. As in real life no-one comes out smelling of roses when it comes to having their hands or consciences dirtied.

Mel what's with all the slow-mo's and Hollywood effects and the poor lighting which made me feel like I was watching a film made in Moscow -not supposedly in Israel.

Blessings

Mel

20 posted on 04/02/2004 2:33:29 AM PST by melsec (No other Name!)
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To: chance33_98
"The problem is that much of this stuff in the movie is in the Gospels," countered Cox. "It's read every Good Friday in churches." The film may push Christians, he said, to scrutinize what he called "these terrible passages" of canonical sources.

This shows their agenda. The "jesus project" already has plans for a new "canon" of scripture that includes new age gnostic gospels and get rid of the traditional ones.

And it shows that Cox and others are ignorant of normal everyday church practices. You see, Gibson's film most resembles the Catholic service "the stations of the cross" that is prayed in many churches weekly during lent. Pictures or symbols of the stations can be found on the walls of most catholic churches. (for example, remember the lady washing Christ's face? That is the sixth station. Three falls are also traditional, as is the part about Jesus meeting his mother part way down the road.

So for all their "scholarship" they don't know something that the average Dorcester truck drive knows about the movie, probably because they probably never bothered to dirty their feet by visiting Dorcester, Glouschester or North Boston....

21 posted on 04/02/2004 2:57:34 AM PST by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: LadyDoc
So for all their "scholarship" they don't know something that the average Dorcester truck drive knows about the movie

Amen. I lived in Cambridge for several years back in the 80's. Great town for Thai and Chinese food. But in terms of actual study and intellectual thought--MIT has Harvard beat hands down (much to the chagrin of the Harvardites). The proliferation of academic majors that end with the suffix of "-studies" are a joke.

Further, it is an act of theological blindness for these people to proclaim what was presented above.

22 posted on 04/02/2004 3:56:02 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: chance33_98
I still get the newsletter from the local Episcopal group.

Yesterday's led off with a longish essay about why the author would rather believe in and follow Frodo Baggins that the Christ of the Passion.

Sad that I am no longer astonished-but that's another story.

Mel's movie is calling out the believers from every church and every nation. I'm surprised at how many there are.

It also is shining a light on the unbelievers, who are of course numerous, as ever.

Frodo Baggins, indeed!

23 posted on 04/02/2004 4:02:28 AM PST by Jim Noble (Now you go feed those hogs before they worry themselves into anemia!)
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To: hellinahandcart
So which one of these self-caressers is the atheist James Carroll?
_________________

The topmost photo
http://www.dce.harvard.edu/pubs/alum/1998/03.html

I am not a fan of "Passion" but this Divination School panel was loaded, lopsided. This is what passes for discourse in the hollowed halls of Harvard?
24 posted on 04/02/2004 4:21:52 AM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: chance33_98

Hahaha! Yes, Cox, you bound-for-hell unbeliever, it's really too bad isn't it that Christian churches will be reading from the New Testament on Good Friday exactly the things Gibson put into his film. They should instead be "re-educated" to believe whatever it is that you liberals believe...mostly that you are gods, I suspect. What a worthless waste of oxygen this entire assembly of the wicked at Harvard is! Barring death-bed conversions, I don't think they will be found among the sheep or the wheat on Judgement Day.
25 posted on 04/02/2004 4:29:20 AM PST by kittymyrib
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To: chance33_98
"Pornographic," added Ellen Aitken, assistant professor of the New Testament, with biting contempt.

Well, from what I read, that would indicate it is a worthy topic for left wing "religious" studies, per the following:

Yale University student sponsors “Sex Week at Yale” using Yale funds, Yale facilities and with the support of Yale faculty and administrators. Several of the events were co-sponsored by Wicked Pictures, an adult film company that provided one of the keynote speakers—porn star Devinn Lane....

Multicultural porn considered “scholarship” at the University of California Santa Barbara. A University of California, Santa Barbara student received acclaim from professors and administrators for his Chicano Studies thesis on “Gay Men of Color in Porn.” The project was presented as part of the UCSB Multicultural Center’s tax-payer funded “Race Matters Series” in an effort to legitimize pornography as an academic pursuit.

You can read more about this at www.collegiatenetwork.org, where they name the winners of their "Polly" (campus outrage) award. What hypocrisy! But not a surprise, of course....

26 posted on 04/02/2004 4:31:40 AM PST by GraceCoolidge
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To: LadyDoc
"The problem is that much of this stuff in the movie is in the Gospels," countered Cox. "It's read every Good Friday in churches." The film may push Christians, he said, to scrutinize what he called "these terrible passages"

As has been noted by you and others this quote is a suprisingly honest admission of what really troubles these people. Their problem isn't with Mel's movie, it's the Gospels that they hate. Like many other pseudo intellectuals before them they whine because they can't remake God in their own image.

27 posted on 04/02/2004 4:38:01 AM PST by joebuck
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To: chance33_98; BibChr; logos; Caleb1411; The Big Econ
Forget the apostate opinions of these NCC mouthpieces. Let's hear what the authentic Christians, the Harvard Christian Impact students, have to say about The Passion.
28 posted on 04/02/2004 4:48:03 AM PST by rhema
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To: dennisw
It's not surprising at all.

People like this are the reason that I now have the same automatic reaction to the words "religious scholars" that I once did to the words "400 Constitutional scholars" (of Clinton impeachment fame).

When I read the words "religious scholar" it is usually always followed by more words that are not very religious (same with "Biblical scholar", it's inevitably followed by very unbiblical stuff). I think it must be lefty-journalist code for "this one's one of our'n; trot out the reverence and awe". If conservative Biblical scholars exist anywhere in the big-name schools, they are never sought out and interviewed. That wouldn't advance the post-Christian agenda.

Most divinity schools and seminaries have been taken over by Satan, frankly. In my denomination, there are only two seminaries left where openly traditional or orthodox candidates stand a snowball's chance in hell of being ordained. The others are slanted toward women, homosexuals, and Marxists. The female "assistant professor of the New Testament" featured in this article is an ordained Episcopal priest. Don't get me started.

I could have guessed how "The Passion" went over with this crowd, before I even began reading, or found out James Carroll was on the panel. They are utterly predictable.



29 posted on 04/02/2004 4:51:36 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: hellinahandcart
Well stated. More .edu totalitarianism where not one panelist was pro-"Passion"

I hope some of the students and attendees grilled these Harvard Divination school pooh-bahs
30 posted on 04/02/2004 4:59:37 AM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: chance33_98; hellinahandcart; fqued
What a disgraceful display. What a den of thieves. What a nest of vipers!

What frauds.

Gospels not a proper source for the Passion? What would be, then, the unread maunderings of these pukes?

31 posted on 04/02/2004 5:03:40 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: dennisw
If you ever wondered why any review containing any phrase resembling "Biblical scholars agree 'The Passion' is harmful" is always greeted here with posts like "Roast in hell, apostate, and kiss my @$$ before you go!", well, now you know.

Most of us had heard way more than enough from some of these scholars before the movie ever came out.
32 posted on 04/02/2004 5:20:13 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: chance33_98
The new Pharisees of America crucify a film about Christ....
33 posted on 04/02/2004 6:37:36 AM PST by freebilly
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