Thou shalt not flub thy photo op, Sen. Kerry (Caught taking "communion" in Protestant Church)

Boston Herald ^ | Wednesday, April 7, 2004 | David R. Guarino

[presidio9]

Photo ops are the saving grace of many political campaigns, but Bay State Sen. John F. Kerry [related, bio] gaffed one recent opportunity - flouting Catholic doctrine by taking communion at a non-Catholic church.

The Democratic presidential candidate invited the press to services at the AME Charles Street Church in Roxbury Sunday. But the photos showed Kerry taking communion.

That, Catholics say, is a catechism no-no.

``Catholics should not receive communion in a Protestant church,'' said Sister Mary Ann Walsh of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. ``It's standard church teaching.''

Deal Hudson, publisher of the conservative Crisis Magazine, said, ``Kerry's attempts to woo the Catholic voter with such photo ops will ultimately turn off Catholics who value sincerity and honesty above superficial and vacuous symbolism.''

Kerry spokesman Michael Meehan said Kerry was merely participating in an ``ecumenical'' Christian service. ``He came at the invitation of the pastor, who invited all Christians to celebrate,'' Meehan said. ``Sen. Kerry is a Christian. He celebrated.''

Stephen Pope, a Boston College theology professor, said, ``As a matter of church law, Kerry broke the law of the church,'' but added that Kerry was in a ``no-win situation'' since taking or refusing communion would have offended someone.

[Mr. Lucky]

When taking communion in an AME church, does the Senator believe the body and blood of Christ to be truly present

[Dolphy]

``Catholics should not receive communion in a Protestant church,'' said Sister Mary Ann Walsh of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

And Kerry will say the church should stay out of politics even as he conducts his politics inside the church.

[FormerLib]

This raises an question from an Orthodox Freeper: in the Orthodox Church, taking communion in a church other than an Orthodox Church is effectively declaring yourself out of communion with the Orthodox Church.

Is this seen as less severe in the Roman Catholic Church?

[Alberta's Child]

. . . Kerry was in a "no-win situation" since taking or refusing communion would have offended someone.

Bullsh!t. There was no reason why the goofy fraud had to be there in the first place.

[Integrityrocks]

Will people please stop referring to Kerry as "Catholic". He's about as catholic as my dog. Is there anyone on the planet that actually BELIEVES he has one ounce of "Catholic faith?" I have always believed the hottest fires of hell are waiting for those who use their religion for financial and political gain. The worst kind of lie and God is watching.

[Support Free Republic]

[Stakka Skynet]

What protestant "church" would let someone inside who supports partial birth abortion? Disgusting. Kerry has started to flip-flop on religion now.

[ladtx]

There may be a special place in hell for people who use religion to try to make points for earthly gains. That may be doubly so for someone who doesn't even honor their own professed religion.

[Mike Bates]

Will people please stop referring to Kerry as "Catholic".

I also get a kick when I read of (Fill in the Blank) Kennedy being "a devout Catholic." Devout Catholics don't engage in the behavior many of the Kennedys have.

Michael M. Bates: My Side of the Swamp

[Petronski]

Why does the Herald suppose Kerry would care one whit about what the Cathechism requires?

[Argh]

Pingus maximus.

[Tacis]

Senator Kerry believes firmly in all aspects of the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. It is just that he lies to others about it. Abortion? Communion? Divorce? Watch what he does (if you can see it). What he says is only for effect (i.e., it is a lie). And, besides, this doesn't matter on another basis as well. Kerry doesn't believe that blacks can be Christians, they don't have souls or something, so "communion" in one of their churches, isn't.

[old-ager]

Communion is not just a personal thing. It's part of a "commun"al confession of faith and doctrine. So he declared his oneness with the doctrine of that church when he "communed" with them. Needless to say, if you are on the side of the RCC that says there is definite doctrine, you would not be doctrinally at one with any Protestant church.

Specifically: (1) they probably did not use wine (there was no such thing as refrigerated or frozen "grape juice" when Communion was instituted) (2) the public confession of that church would be that Holy Communion is only a human work of obedience or remembrance, not a Sacrament (mysterious transmission of forgiveness from God to man via earthly elements).

So what he did was not even Communion. But it _was_ a mockery of Communion.

[Integrityrocks]

Yup. he's flip flopping alright. If he had a brain, he would break form and show respect for the Catholic Church and simply formally break away, citing, irreconcilable philosophical differences and join the Episcopalian Gay church. At least there he would stay out of the controversy fray and the entire thing would go away.

[Arthur McGowan]

Kerry is trying desperately to pretend to be a devout Catholic. What he's been revealing recently is that he is not just a pro-abortion Catholic, but HE IS SO PROFOUNDLY IGNORANT of Catholicism, that he can't even effectively pretend to be a Catholic. His recent remark about "Pope Pius XXIII," and "the Vatican II" reveal this. I would bet anything that Kerry simply DID NOT KNOW that receiving communion in a Protestant church is against the law of the Catholic Church. Kerry recently said, in order to demonstrate his "piety," that he always wore a Rosary around his neck in Vietnam. I've asked a number of priests if they've ever seen anyone wearing a Rosary around the neck. The response: Only bag ladies, or mental patients. It is NOT a Catholic custom to wear a Rosary as a necklace.

[billorites]

"What protestant "church" would let someone inside who supports partial birth abortion?"

Only a handful, sadly, would not.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

What protestant "church" would let someone inside who supports partial birth abortion? Disgusting. Kerry has started to flip-flop on religion now.

Any that follow the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ. He walked among the sinner and I believe expects us to do the same. Then again perhaps I have missed the point and should stand at the door and turn away the sinner?

[onedoug]

Catholicism is what Kerry declares it is. No church authority dares tell him otherwise.

[Sloth]

I agree that nobody should be excluded simply because of who they are, but what about the press people he invited along to disruptively take pictures, etc.?

[Rutles4Ever]

. . Kerry was in a "no-win situation" since taking or refusing communion would have offended someone.

Um... he ended up offending the only One who he needed to worry about offending.

This guy is so horribly misguided -- he's borderline evil. Perhaps not yet in the Clinton ring of hell, but he's making a strong effort.

[Jim Noble]

But it _was_ a mockery of Communion

Make of it what you will.

Our services are not mockery.

[mcg1969]

I have attended an Episcopal communion service before. As is tradition, not being a member of said church, I crossed my arms in front of me to indicate that I would not be taking communion. They knew exactly what I was doing and nobody was offended. Sometimes it's not that difficult to do the right thing, Mr. Kerry.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

... but he served in Vietnam ya know...

[Poohbah]

This raises an question from an Orthodox Freeper: in the Orthodox Church, taking communion in a church other than an Orthodox Church is effectively declaring yourself out of communion with the Orthodox Church.

Is this seen as less severe in the Roman Catholic Church?

It is a serious sin, inasmuch as it proclaims a unity among Christians that is regrettably not truly present at this time. Done habitually, it can be seen as doing just that.

[Redcloak]

"For this reason, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself first, and in this way let him eat the bread and drink of the cup. For the one who eats and drinks without careful regard for the body eats and drinks judgment against himself."

I Cor. 11:27-29

[muawiyah]

No, actually it was Communion. Not only that, it was undoubtedly a complete Communion with bread AND wine offered to the Christians and their friends around the table.

It is necessary for all Christians to bear witness at all times in any given venue. Possibly Kerry will be brought to an understanding sufficient for salvation. At the moment he's not there, nor would he be even if he followed to the letter every detail of various church laws.

[AppyPappy]

Be serious. He's a politician. All rules are out the door.

[AppyPappy]

1 Corinthians 11

Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

[Rutles4Ever]

I think he meant that it was a mockery of the sacrament of communion. At any rate, there's nothing to sacrilege since the body and blood of Christ are not present at Protestant communion. It's a mockery of his own purported membership in the Catholic faith.

[Miss Marple]

Thank you for clarifying that information about the Rosary. I thought I was correct about it, but as I am not a Catholic I was not 100% certain that I was right.

You know, this guy isn't even a good fake Catholic, since I, as a Protestant, know more about Catholicism than he does!

[tkathy]

A lot of mainstream Protestant Churches welcome anyone who was baptized. Makes sense to me.

[MIchaelTArchangel]

This raises an question from an Orthodox Freeper: in the Orthodox Church, taking communion in a church other than an Orthodox Church is effectively declaring yourself out of communion with the Orthodox Church.

Is this seen as less severe in the Roman Catholic Church?

The general answer to your question is, YES. There is one exception. A Catholic can receive Communion in an Orthodox Church if there are no Catholic Churches in the area. The reason is that the Catholic Church recognizes the validity of the Holy Eucharist in the Orthodox Church. That is, Orthodox and Catholic doctrine about the Sacrament of Holy Eucharist is the same and so is the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

The reason the Catholic Church -- and the Orthodox Church -- prohibit receiving communion in another Christian Church is that no other Christian denomination believes their communion is anything more than a symbol -- with the exception of certain Lutherans at the time of Luther! In short, receiving communion in the AME Church states that Kerry endorses their belief that there is no difference between the Holy Eucharist of the Catholic (and Orthodox Church(es) and the communion of the AME Church.

[Mr. Lucky]

Participating in the Lord's Supper unworthily brings damnation.

[presidio9]

Sen. John Kerry laughs as he is introduced during Palm Sunday services at the Charles St. AME Church in Roxbury.

Senator Kerry has gotten a lot of egg on his face over this. I'm his advisors get the message and tell him "No more church photo-ops, and stop talking about your religion." I don't want to instruct him on the correct way to practice Catholicism. I'd just like him to stop talking about it.

[Mr. Lucky]

..no other Christian denomination believes their communion is anything more than a symbol.

That's not true, ya know.

[presidio9]

As is tradition, not being a member of said church, I crossed my arms in front of me to indicate that I would not be taking communion.

I have done the same thing. This is common practice. Also, not getting up for communion offends nobody. Unless you are in a state of grace, you are not supposed to be receiving communion anyway.

[presidio9]

ping

[xp38]

This reminds me of the time in Africa that Clinton took part in a Roman Catholic mass. Neither Kerry nor Clinton seem to respect or know much about this.

[twigs]

Wrong. I am Presbyterian, take communion as a remembrance, looking forward to His death until He returns, and it is NOT, I repeat, IT IS NOT, a human work. That is quite an insult to Protestant believers. I am married to a Catholic and he once took communion in my church because we open our communion to the body of ALL believers. His mother, howver, took him to task and said that to be a good Catholic, he could not take communion outside the Catholic church.

[Rutles4Ever]

The reason the Catholic Church -- and the Orthodox Church -- prohibit receiving communion in another Christian Church is that no other Christian denomination believes their communion is anything more than a symbol

Better put this way: No other denominational clergy can change bread and wine into the actual body and blood of Christ. It's not because they don't believe (heck, the majority of Catholics don't belive in the real presence), it's because He is simply not present in the bread and wine they celebrate with.

[vpintheak]

I don't want to cause a big problem here as I am a conservative Lutheran. As much of a problem I have with Kerry, and I have a lot of problems with him, I think that taking communion in another church causes no problems whatsoever. If we look at what communion is for, why would anyone have a problem with it? I believe is it silly church doctrine that would restrict people to only taking communion at certain places. That being said, I believe Kerry is pandering to the religious for votes and nothing more.

[canyon]

I have always taken this scripture to mean "Make sure your heart is right" not "Make sure the 'bread' and 'wine' are right."

[presidio9]

I don't think the original poster was trying to offend you. Catholics believe that a miracle occurs during the Liturgy of the Eucharist, and that the bread and wine is literally transformed into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. The only persons capable of performing the miracle of Consecration are ordained priests. As far as I know, Presbyterians do not accept this, so for a Catholic to receive communion in a Presbyterian church is a grave sin.

[Rutles4Ever]

She's correct. It's the equivalent of having sex with the woman who divorced you...

Sigh... Okay, let the flaming begin...

[Aquinasfan]

Stephen Pope, a Boston College theology professor, said, ``As a matter of church law, Kerry broke the law of the church,'' but added that Kerry was in a ``no-win situation'' since taking or refusing communion would have offended someone.

BC. No surprise.

[Rutles4Ever]

Sorry, I mis-formatted that:

The italcs are my comment to the woman who said her mother chastised her Catholic husband for taking communion in a Presbyterian Church

[Rutles4Ever]

What's surprising is that he actually says Kerry broke a law of the Church.

[presidio9]

Professor Pope would have had more to add, but he was late for the school-sponsored production of "The Vagina Monologues."

[TrueBeliever9]

"Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men." Mark 7:8 Jesus said all Ten Commandments [The Word] was one commandment "Love thy neigbhbor as thyself." I wonder what He thinks of all these traditions of men about who can take communion, with whom they can take communion and where they can take communion. The first people to take communion were Jewish and they did not take it in cathedrals - they took it daily, with each other, in their homes! Communion is about an intimate relationship with the LORD Of Lords, KING of Kings, Ruler of the Universe in Great Majesty! And, to many He will say "depart from Me, I never KNEW you." He is returning for a Holy Spirit filled Bride who has become The Word in the flesh as He is The Word in the flesh - He will not be unequally yoked! So whomever is taking communion is not in that state - it is a waste of their time!