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"As evidence he cites genetic data showing the Celts are more closely related to the Basque people of south west France and the Celts of Brittany and Spain, while the English are closer to the Germans descended from the Anglo Saxons."

The only surprise here is that the basque are genetically related to the celts. The rest of this stuff is easily deduced from the last couple of thousand years of history.

The west vs east proposal doesn't make clear where in the east of britain they are surprised to find germanic genes, though what I have read in other articles says that celtic genes are more common in England itself than was previously expected. From northumbria south was heavily settled by A-S tribes, danes, etc., from the 5th century onward. The pictish areas of scotland are not mentioned. What about any of this (besides basque-celtic genetic link) is a surprise at all? Obviously the celts would be genetically related to each other (brittany received its current celts from wales and cornwall celts running from anglo-saxons, etc).

What part of any of this is a surprise given the linguo-ethnic map of the roman empire in circa 400, and the known subsequent migrations?

1 posted on 04/11/2004 6:50:12 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: A.J.Armitage; AdmSmith; Alas Babylon!; abner; adam_az; Benrand; billorites; blam; buwaya; Ciexyz; ..
Hello all. Thanks Val for the ping.
WoofDog123 wrote: What about any of this (besides basque-celtic genetic link) is a surprise at all? Obviously the celts would be genetically related to each other (brittany received its current celts from wales and cornwall celts running from anglo-saxons, etc).
The Celtiberians occupied Iberia -- it was the hybrid of Celtic migration and the earlier Iberian settlers. Basque is an isolated language family, but probably has some loan words as do almost all languages.
WoofDog123 wrote: I would think genetic studies could clear this up once and for all in the east and northeast of scotland.
Genetic studies can't tell anything much about culture or language, or even geographic origins.
xkaydet65 wrote: So complete was the Anglo Saxon triumph that some say there is not a place in England that bears a Celtic name, nor a word in English that remains from the Gaelic of the Celts. Is it so hard to believe that the descendants of these invaders would dominate the land genetically.

WoofDog123 wrote: There are like a whopping 2 or 3 loanwords surviving into modern english. Crag is one, i think but am not sure tor is another.
"Galore" as in "to repletion" came directly from Scots Gaelic, and unlike other modifiers in English, properly appears after the word modified. So the grammar came with it. Although not commonly used (because it's archaic, as is the word form "youse", which some folks occasionally use today; that one is straight out of Saxon times), we also have "bairn" and others. Not a ton of others, but they are there. Scots Gaelic is more widely spoken in daily use than Irish Gaelic (its closest relative).

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53 posted on 06/06/2004 8:39:46 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (George W. Bush will win reelection by a margin of at least ten per cent.)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
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64 posted on 01/24/2006 10:40:34 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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