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The Truth about 'the Wall'
The Washington Post ^ | April 18, 2004 | Jamie S. Gorelick

Posted on 04/17/2004 11:07:15 PM PDT by Piranha

The commission investigating the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, has a critical dual mission to fulfill -- to help our nation understand how the worst assault on our homeland since Pearl Harbor could have occurred and to outline reforms to prevent new acts of terrorism.

***************SNIP*****************

At last week's hearing, Attorney General John Ashcroft, facing criticism, asserted that "the single greatest structural cause for September 11 was the wall that segregated criminal investigators and intelligence agents" and that I built that wall through a March 1995 memo. This is simply not true.

First, I did not invent the "wall," which is not a wall but a set of procedures implementing a 1978 statute (the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA) and federal court decisions interpreting it. In a nutshell, that law, as the courts read it, said intelligence investigators could conduct electronic surveillance in the United States against foreign targets under a more lenient standard than is required in ordinary criminal cases, but only if the "primary purpose" of the surveillance were foreign intelligence rather than a criminal prosecution.

**************SNIP****************

...the memo I wrote in March 1995 ... permits freer coordination between intelligence and criminal investigators than was subsequently permitted by the 1995 guidelines or the 2001 Thompson memo. My memo directed agents on both sides to share information -- and, in particular, directed one agent to work on both the criminal and intelligence investigations -- to ensure the flow of information "over the wall."

***************SNIP***************

The Patriot Act...says that electronic surveillance can be conducted in the United States against foreign threats as long as a "significant purpose" -- rather than the "primary purpose" -- is to obtain foreign intelligence.

************SNIP*************

I intend -- with my brethren on the commission -- to finish the job.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 911commission; ashcroft; gorelick; gorelickmemo; reno; thewall; truthaboutthewall; wall
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To: Glenn
She's on the run if she has resorted to op-ed her plight. She'll be resigning soon.

I do not want her to resign as her presence makes the commission look like the kangaroo court it is. I want her to resign and then be forced to testify under oath in public.

21 posted on 04/17/2004 11:36:19 PM PDT by cpdiii (Oil Field Trash, Geologist, Pharmacist (REFUSE TO ATTEND A GUNFIGHT WITH A CAL. LESS THAN FORTY))
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To: ScaniaBoy
I'm writing a letter now. Is it Ms. or Mrs. Gorelick?
22 posted on 04/17/2004 11:42:19 PM PDT by Betaille ("Show them no mercy, for none shall be shown to you")
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To: Piranha
The question that no person has asked is why she wrote the wall of separation and later made the wall even higher. She is and was a Clintonista and was running the Justice Department because Janet Reno was an incompetent.

If she wrote the wall it was at the behest of the Clintons.
The question is why did the Clintons want this?
23 posted on 04/17/2004 11:43:29 PM PDT by cpdiii (Oil Field Trash, Geologist, Pharmacist (REFUSE TO ATTEND A GUNFIGHT WITH A CAL. LESS THAN FORTY))
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To: Piranha; All
New Democratic Talking Point, articulated today by Susan Estrogen on FOX News:

Susan insisted that Republicans are unhappy with the Commission because it is revealing that President Bush lied to the country that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and therefore, misled us into an unnecessary war.

I don't even know where to begin on this one.
24 posted on 04/17/2004 11:45:09 PM PDT by Spotsy (Bush-Cheney '04)
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To: Betaille
"Ms" I think.

At least according to this recent bio:

http://www.sainc.com/tapac/library/Nov2003/Bio-JamieGorelick.pdf
25 posted on 04/17/2004 11:47:10 PM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: Piranha
So, on what date will hillary ORDER Kerry to ORDER her to step down? Hilly has your FBI file babe.
26 posted on 04/17/2004 11:48:30 PM PDT by Waco
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To: Piranha
Come to think of it, why isn't there a commission investigating and reporting to the people WHY Hillar has so many FBI files? Very crimminal thing!
27 posted on 04/17/2004 11:50:49 PM PDT by Waco
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To: Piranha
Who cares? She's a Democrat and they always get a pass because Republicans are too wimpy to take them on.
28 posted on 04/17/2004 11:51:58 PM PDT by Fledermaus (Ðíé F£éðérmáú§ ^;;^ says, "John Kerry could bore a rock to erosion!")
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To: SkyPilot
...and ridiculous pins on the lapel.

What IS that thing, anyway...a nipple?

I pledge allegiance,
To the nipple...
And to the Wall for which it stands:
One Gorelick...indefatigable,
With no foreign intelligence for law enforcement,
AT ALL!

29 posted on 04/17/2004 11:53:15 PM PDT by O Neill (When Johny bin Kerry comes marchin' home: Who cares? Who cares?)
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To: Piranha
The "Wall Memo" was obviously instigated to provide protection for X42 also.

Remember when he had his henchmen destroy all the State Department records of his subversive activities in England and Europe during the late '60s and early '70s?

First thing X42 did upon inauguration was to have all the U.S. attourneys fired so any investigative work they had done on his own misbehavior would come to naught.

30 posted on 04/17/2004 11:56:21 PM PDT by nightdriver
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To: Waco
So was Waco. OKC. Randy Weaver. Elian Gonzales. Charlie Trie. John Huang. Lippo. Riady Bros. Vince Foster. Whitewater. Meena. Los Alamos. Loral. Bin Laden. Saddam. House of Saud. Investment fraud. Election fraud. Illegal campaign donations. Drugs. Selling pardons. Women...as in RAPE!

So many reasons. So little time.
31 posted on 04/18/2004 12:02:05 AM PDT by Nix 2 (http://cachelot.blogspot.com for Skerry stuff)
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To: Alberta's Child
This is her version of "public testimony" without the inconvenience of cross examination. Bye, bye Jamie.
32 posted on 04/18/2004 12:06:51 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic RATmedia agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: Piranha
The very fact that she has to defend herself so strenuously is ample proof that she ought to resign. No other member of the commission has been so intimately involved in executive branch decisions that impact the prosecution of our fight against terror. It's that simple. She has to go.
33 posted on 04/18/2004 12:08:52 AM PDT by mcg1969
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To: cpdiii
It has been blown up and like Humpty Dumpty will never be together again. Ashcroft slipped the stilleto with a velvet touch.
34 posted on 04/18/2004 12:08:54 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic RATmedia agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: mcg1969
Actually I am afraid it will happen too quick and the RATmedia will brush everything back under the rug. It has been almost silent about this and if she leaves quickly there will be nothing revealed as to the real reason. Another week or so of twisting in the wind needs to go on.
35 posted on 04/18/2004 12:11:40 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic RATmedia agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: Piranha
"and, in particular, directed one agent to work on both the criminal and intelligence investigations"

How would ONE lone agent be able to handle the volume of crossover information? This would surely cause a bottleneck and overlooking of important details.

And who was this ONE agent, were they in on the particular things to be squelched and otherwise avoided?

This would appear to be a rather feckless, weak handling of this critical situation and she needs to be grilled on this particular point.
36 posted on 04/18/2004 12:20:09 AM PDT by spoiler2
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To: Piranha; All
IT'S NOT THE DAMN MEMO (which is bad enough on its own) - IT'S THE FACT SHE DECEIVED THE COMMISSION ABOUT IT - KEPT IT SECRET FROM THEM - AND EVEN WHEN EXPOSED, SHE DENIED SHE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.

And .. her memo does not allow "freer" communication. It does the exact opposite and she knows it.

Shame on the Washington Post for allowing her to use them to COVER UP HER DECEIPTFUL ACTIONS.
37 posted on 04/18/2004 12:28:07 AM PDT by CyberAnt (The 2004 Election is for the SOUL of AMERICA)
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To: Piranha
I especially loved her comment about Ashcroft, "facing criticism". From who ..?? For what ..?? She was the only one critizing Ashcroft - what a dolt!
38 posted on 04/18/2004 12:31:06 AM PDT by CyberAnt (The 2004 Election is for the SOUL of AMERICA)
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To: All
I have said this on a few threads here already, but I'll do it again here as well.

1. Gorelick is hopelessly conflicted and must resign / be removed from the commission. Her invlovement in counterintelligence during the Clinton Admisnistration alone is sufficient grounds for this.

2. The "Wall" memo. I did not read the entire article, but I can more or less guess what she is saying. Having myself worked in the counterintellignce field from 1985 to 1991, I am quite familiar with the FISA and the various prohibitions against collecting intelligence on "US Persons". What Gorelick claims in the article is correct and, unless I see evidence that she actually wanted to hinder intelligence gathering, I will believe that she truly intended to create a system which could not be called into question by our judicial branch.

Some here seem to think that this all got started under Clinton. It didn't. The very FIRST guidlelines where from 1947. In 1974 came the privacy act. In 1978 (??) the FISA Act. In the early 80's, Ronald Reagan signed EO's which basically layed the framework for the "Wall". The Banking Scandals (BCCI & BNL) showed that there were problem areas with this and the "rules" needed refinement.

In a typical CI Investigation, the normals safeguards we inherently enjoy (privacy etc...) can be ignored. Eavesdropping and other invasive methods of information gathering are used. Any information thus recieved is NOT admissable in a court as it was not obtained "legally" - and any evidence *derived* directly from this information is also NOT admissible. It is therefore necessary to maintain a strict "wall" between CI and Criminal Investigations.

It is important to remember that terrorism was considered a criminal problem. Only since 9/11 do we as a people view this differently. So, in order to obtain a conviction against terrorists in the US, it was imperative to have a procedure in place which was above reproach by the courts.

BTW - ALL executive agencies have been / are effected by this - the military, the CIA, the NSA etc... **AND** each one had / have thier own rules for implementing the law.

So much for History.

Pre 9/11, many of us here on FR would probably applauded ANY government official who, at least nominally, went "beyond what the law requires" in protecting our rights.

Unfortunately, this is one of those cases where the protection of our rights conflicts with the needs of national security. Anytime this type of situation needs resolution, it is at best difficult, at times nearly impossible to resolve the needs "equitably". Personally, I would rather have persons knowledgeable of both CI & criminal investigations attempt to resolve this - not the courts!

I belive that Gorelick tried to do just that.

Before the "flames" begin, I want to make it VERY clear that I do not defend the "Wall". Rather, I understand the historical perspective of it's creation. It IS important to understand this before we "judge".

Her involvement in policy making concerning CI and the emerging information of her true involvment in many aspects of the Clinton Administration conflict with her current duty as a Commissioner. She should resign. Failing that, she should be removed from the commission.
39 posted on 04/18/2004 12:43:33 AM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (A vote for JF'nK is a vote for Peace in our Time!)
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To: An.American.Expatriate
I think a letter sent by a former state representative from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan might shed some light on the Gorelick memo. And perhaps McVeigh's trial is somewhere in the room, as well. I posted this letter, along with parts of the "intelligence timeline" that is mentioned as an attachment at the end of the letter, before here on FR last week. On Sunday morning, Fox News' Rebecca Gomez reported on happenings that are included in the intelligence timeline. Here is the letter again. What is your take on it?

Forensic Intelligence International, LLC the Kauth house, 318 Cooper Avenue, Hancock, Michigan 49930; 906-370-9993 706-294-9993 (mobile), 603-452-8208 (fax & voice mail), sdresch@forensic-intelligence.org

Monday, April 5, 2004

Urgent & Confidential

Thomas H. Kean, Chairman
Lee H. Hamilton, Vice Chairman
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
301 7th Street, SW
Room 5125
Washington, DC 20407

Re: Pre-September 2001 FBI and Dept. of Justice Intelligence on Terrorism (R. Yousef)

Dear Chairman Kean and Vice Chairman Hamilton:

Our monitoring of the Commission’s hearings indicates that significant intelligence concerning the terrorist threat to the United States obtained between 1996 and early 2001 by various components of the U.S. Department of Justice has not been provided to the Commission.

This intelligence was provided to agents of the New York office of the FBI and senior prosecutors with the offices of the U.S. Attorneys for the Southern and Eastern Districts of New York by an informant, Gregory Scarpa, Jr., who developed a close personal relationship with Ramzi Ahmed Yousef while Yousef and Scarpa were incarcerated at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) in New York in 1996 and 1997, with supplemental information provided in 2000 by Scarpa to an official of the U.S. Bureau of Prisons after he was transferred to the Administrative Maximum Security (ADMAX) Penitentiary in Florence Colorado, to which Yousef had already been transferred and where both currently remain. In early 2001 another inmate of Florence ADMAX attempted to transmit much of the information developed by Scarpa to the director of the FBI, the President of the United States and the Attorney General.1

We first became aware of this intelligence when, for purposes entirely unrelated to terrorism, we met with Scarpa at Florence ADMAX in March 2003. In the course of these meetings Scarpa provided to us his contemporaneous (1996-97) handwritten notes of his conversations with Yousef and his terrorist codefendants2 and copies of FBI Forms 302 (informant reports) recounting the information which he had provided to agents of the FBI.3

1 We cannot, of course, confirm that these mailings, made by Gerard Van Hoorelbeke, in fact left the prison or reached their intended recipients. Van Hoorelbeke remains incarcerated at Florence ADMAX (Reg. No. 10376-029).

2 Scarpa reported conversations with Yousef and with Yousef’s codefendants, Wali Khan Amin Shah, Abdul Hakim Murad and Eyad Ismoil. Many of these conversations referenced a person identified by the terrorists as “Bojinga,” whom we believe to be Osama Bin Laden.

3 During his incarceration at the MCC, Scarpa was regularly debriefed by an agent of the FBI who, using the alias “Susan Schwartz,” posed as a paralegal employed by Scarpa’s attorney, Larry J. Silverman. In addition to these reports, Scarpa, utilizing a mini-camera provided by the warden of the MCC, provided the FBI with photographs of documents (“kites”) which Yousef shared with him. Also, with the assistance of Scarpa (acting on behalf of the FBI) Yousef was able to make telephone calls, monitored by the FBI, to active (unincarcerated) members of his terrorist networks via a “patch-through” phone accessed from MCC. FI2

- 2 -

The intelligence provided by Scarpa included specific threats to U.S. airlines, the identification of countries (e.g., England) through which terrorists were entering the United States and testing U.S. security procedures, instructions for smuggling explosive chemicals and detonators (including hiding these in the heels of shoes), and formulas for explosives and for the production of phosgene and mustard gases. Yousef revealed to Scarpa his strong interest in obtaining blank U.S. passports which “his people would only use for one trip to board the planes to be hijacked.” Further intelligence laid out a plan to videotape the killings of hijacking victims, with distribution of these tapes to the media.4

One very serious missed opportunity to disrupt a terrorist network here in the United States prior to September 11, 2001, involved Yousef’s agreement to meeting in New York between Scarpa’s associates (who would have been disguised FBI agents) and four active (unincarcerated) terrorists. This meeting never took place because the cognizant FBI agents and assistant U.S. attorneys refused to agree to Yousef’s demand that $3,000 be provided to the terrorists.

It should be noted that Scarpa provided this assistance to the FBI at considerable risk not only to himself but also to members of his family, whose address he was compelled to provide to Yousef to enhance his credibility.

We have identified the following officials as having been directly involved with Scarpa in his role as an informant, as summarized in the attached “Scarpa-Yousef Intelligence Timeline”:5

New York Office of the FBI
Susan Schwartz (alias)
Pat White
James Kallstrom

U.S. Attorneys’ Offices
AUSA Michael Garcia (EDNY)
AUSA Patrick Fitzgerald (EDNY)
AUSA Valerie Caproni (EDNY)<> U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White (SDNY)

Metropolitan Correctional Center (New York)
Warden R.M. Reish

Administrative Maximum Secuity Penitentiary, Florence, Colorado
Mr. Manly (SIS)

4 Scarpa’s intelligence anticipates “shoe bomber” Richard Reed, the authorization for the 9/11 attacks given by Yousef's uncle, Kahlid Shaikh Mohammed, Mohammed Atta’s and Al Qaeda’s English connections, the single-use passports employed to board the airplanes hijacked on 9/11, and the videotaped death in Pakistan of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl.

5 The office of the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of New York was initially informed of Scarpa’s contacts with Yousef at the MCC and his willingness to serve as an informant by his attorney, Larry J. Silverman (46 Trinity Place, New York 10006; 212-425-1616), who remained informed of Scarpa’s activities on behalf of the government.

- 3 -

Although the information provided by Scarpa appears to have been fully documented, especially in Forms 302 prepared by the New York office of the FBI, we do not know if this information was disseminated to other agencies with responsibility for the prevention of terrorist attacks on the United States.

We understand that AUSA Patrick Fitzgerald (EDNY), in a later (sealed) court filing, attested to the credibility, accuracy and value of the terrorism intelligence provided by Scarpa. However, at the time of Scarpa’s sentencing AUSA Valerie Caproni denigrated Scarpa’s credibility as an informant. Apparently, Scarpa’s credibility was perceived to pose a threat in the context of serious questions which had been raised concerning the informant relationship of Scarpa’s father, Gregory Scarpa, Sr., with FBI Supervisory Special Agent R. Lindley DeVecchio, the revelation of which might place in jeopardy a number of convictions secured by the office of the U.S. Attorney (EDNY). This latter matter, entirely unrelated to terrorism, remains a subject of continuing, independent investigation.

We strongly advise that the Commission fully examine the terrorism intelligence secured by the government through the informant services of Gregory Scarpa, Jr., and assess the extent to which it was appropriately utilized to reduce the terrorist threat to the United States.

Respectfully submitted,

Angela Clemente

Stephen P. Dresch, Ph.D. Santrea_143.2@juno.com 706-294-9993

Principal witness: Gregory Scarpa, Jr. Reg. No. 10099-050 ADX Florence P.O. Box 8500 5880 State Highway 67 South Florence, Colorado 81226 719-784-9464

Attachment: Scarpa-Yousef Intelligence Timeline

I posted a part of the information that Gerard Van Hoorelbeke sent early in 2001, months before 9-11, that included words of Yousef's that said, in effect, that in our airplanes, terrorists have bombs anytime they want them.

If you look back over my comments since the 9th or so, there are links provided to the above--the intell timeline is 7 pages long--there are FBI 302s available there, though some are unavailable--dating from immediately after the terrorist downing of Flight 800. There is also information contained therein that says there have been at least two other airplane crashes that have not been classified as terrorist-related.

And I am nothing more than a murmur in the pit with the rest of the American people watching the stage of the 9-11 commission while those in the better seats are pleased, so far, with the production. It makes me sick.

40 posted on 04/18/2004 1:46:46 AM PDT by WhiteyAppleseed (Abteilung Der Heimatsicherheit. Because Prussian schooling is our way of life.)
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