Document: Oklahoma City Bombing Was Taped

AP via Yahoo! ^ | April 19, 2004 | John Solomon

[archy]

The most telling photograph, the one that cinched it for me anyway, was one depicting a severed reinforced concrete beam, rebar cleanly sheared, within 6 feet of unmolested drywall and finish wood trim. If an explosion outside the building had the force to shear reinforced concrete, the drywall would have vaporized.

Plain and simple, shaped charges directly on the affected beams is the ONLY plausible explanation. The fact that this is steadfastly denied in the face of physics implies a much different scenario actually went down that day than they are ever going to admit.

For me the most interesting photos were those from immediately after the explosion in which the building had colapsed, but trees across the street still had all or most of their leaves intact. I don't know where the force of the blast that destroyed the building came from, but it wasn't within the radius of that truck to those trees.

Look just forward of the crane, at the edge/lip of the building damage:

Out of focus, but look at the background behind the fireman:

Tree at the edge of the parking lot and a shrub in the foreground between the street lamp posts...with debris blown OUTWARD from the building's interior.

[job]

tree was across the street, quite aways from the blast center... if you had seen the peripheral damage, I think you would be convinced that a blast outside the building took place.

[Old Professer]

The government has maintained for years that McVeigh parked the Ryder rental truck carrying a massive fertilizer bomb outside the Murrah building and left alone in a getaway car he parked around the corner. The bombing killed more than 160 people.

Should have been easy enough to film him loaded down with all that weight.

Actually, he parked the truck in which the bomb was carried...

[archy]

Yow! Never saw that before.

It gets worse.

[archy]

tree was across the street, quite aways from the blast center... if you had seen the peripheral damage, I think you would be convinced that a blast outside the building took place.

Oh, I agree there was an explosive charge, and a considerable one, at that, inside the Ryder truck. But if that charge was sufficient to shatter structural beams inside the building, you'd think it would have blown the leaves off the trees and shreaded the shrubbery at the building's ends, too.

Of cource, that still leaves the crater inside the building....

[JOAT]

Actually, he parked the truck in which the bomb was carried...

Have you seen any of the information on micro nukes using Plutonium 239? Doesn't leave the 'traditional' signature detectable by Geiger counters and can be passed off as a conventional explosion.

[Eastbound]

Someone ought to start a thread entitled, "What Cinched It For Me." :> What cinched it for me was the statement of the guy on the ninth floor who said he felt the building starting to shake and he thought it was an earthquake. He had time to decide to look for a desk to crawl under. It was only after he crawled under the desk that he heard the explosion and the building came tumbling down. Time lapse of up to nine seconds, if I remember correctly.

It's possible he didn't hear the crackling of the charges because of the baffling of the walls and floors between him and the placement of the charges, but he was clear on the fact that the building was shaking many seconds before he heard the blast . . . an impossibility if the truck bomb was the only bomb.

[Centurion2000]

bump

[Eastbound]

"Of cource, that still leaves the crater inside the building...."

What crater?

[wtc911]

Thanks...I don't remember it being summer or not but they were in black and they were carrying better and more firepower than I did when I was on the job.

[Eastbound]

Yes, I know. That's what the testimony was. Just wondering why, if the HP was travelling that fast, it would only be in response to a dispatch. I can't imagine how he would be able to notice that a car he was passing (at that speed) did not have a license plate, or even why he would stop to give the guy a ticket if he was on an emergency call. IF he was on an emergency call, of course. If I was travelling 90 mph, the last place my eyes would be focussed would be on a car I was passing, but rather, well up the road five or six blocks.

[job]

I have never heard of the dispatch call so I cannot speak to it, but OK license plates are very noticeable, they are a highly reflective metallic white color with green lettering. It would be very noticeable on McVeigh's old car.

[madison10]

I've read through alot of the posts, but I have an answered question. Was the purpose of bombing the Murrah building just to show disdain for the United States by McVeigh? or was purpose of the bombing, maybe caused by McVeigh, maybe not, to hide, destroy, or kill something/someone already inside the building?

[madison10]

answered = unanswered DUH

[job]

purportedly, McVeigh's bombing was in retaliation for the deaths suffered at Waco. Also, it is said that Bob Ricks, was thought to be FBI head at Waco, was then OKC bureau chief? (not sure that is right, I thought Dan Vogel was). Has been rumoured that units were sent to Rick's neighborhood for protection upon learning of the bombing.

[elli1]

No wonder the FBI wants to keep the lid on the OKC bombing and their frameup/railroad job of Tim McVeigh...

Supposedly the Feds grilled her 8-9 hours a day for over a week, so I suspect this is but the tip of the iceberg of all the stuff they threatened her with. I'm cynic enough to believe that these sort of heavy-handed techniques are more the norm than the exception. But I think the main reason they wanted to put the lid on the OKC thing was because of Waco. IMO, they wanted to send McVeigh down & wanted to do it quick, so I think the deal was that if Tim went quietly (without squawking about Waco), then the Feds would keep their hands off the Jennifer. The problem the Clinton administration had was that McVeigh had a motive that a good number of people could halfway understand and the last thing they wanted was a focus on & exploration of McVeigh's motive.

[archy]

"Of cource, that still leaves the crater inside the building...."
What crater?

The one they covered with plywood to keep from being so obvious after they started letting rescue workers in to try to save lives. They actually kept rescuers back until they'd covered up most of the evidence of the interior blast, including the photo of the effect inside, and later, the wrapping of plastic around the columns to cover the smoke smudges and scortch marks from the charges that sheared them.

[archy]

I've read through alot of the posts, but I have an answered question. Was the purpose of bombing the Murrah building just to show disdain for the United States by McVeigh? or was purpose of the bombing, maybe caused by McVeigh, maybe not, to hide, destroy, or kill something/someone already inside the building?

The federal evidence from the BATF/FBI raid at Waco was stored in the Murrah building. Also, Oklahoma City was the federal district headquarters for the DEA investigations into drug dealing in and around the Mena, Arkansas airport.

DEA suffered more casualties than any of the other federal agencies that day, though some of their agents were in fact out of the office at a team golf tournament.

[archy]

Nothing will come of this. It all seems like UFO chasing...

Kathy Wilburn might not see it that way....

Tuesday, May 29, 2001

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OKC BOMBING FALLOUT
'Glenn and Kathy Wilburn'
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's devastating reports on Oklahoma terror, Part 2

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Editor's note: WND is serializing this week the Oklahoma City bombing reports of one of the world's foremost investigative journalists, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard of the London Telegraph. Excerpted from his book, "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton, seven chapters analyze the Oklahoma tragedy and devastate the official government version of what occurred on April 19, 1995.

Yesterday, in Part 1, "The resurrection of President Clinton," Evans-Pritchard revealed that "the Justice Department's inspector general lists the Oklahoma bombing case as one of the worst examples of de facto evidence tampering by the crime labs."

In Part 2, today, the author helps readers relive the Oklahoma City tragedy from the point of view of a family that lost two children in the Murrah Building's daycare center, and their subsequent horror to discover rampant official lying in the tragedy's aftermath.

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

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© 2001 Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

The boys were the heart and soul of the house. They lived with their mother and grandparents, three generations together in the suburbs of Oklahoma City. Chase was three; Colton was two. They were lively spirits, with faces lifted from the frescoes of Fra Angelico.

On weekdays they would be dropped off at America's Kids on the second floor of the Alfred P. Murrah Building. Their mother, Edye Smith, worked as a secretary for the IRS, four blocks away. So did their grandmother, Kathy Wilburn, a training instructor.

The daycare center was an extra perk the two women enjoyed as federal employees. They did not know at the time that none of the law enforcement agents put their own children in the crèche as a matter of policy. Nor did they know that the ATF, the Secret Service and U. S. Customs had offices in the building.

Glenn Wilburn doubled as father and grandfather. A courteous, gentle, well-fed fellow, aged 44, he had a successful practice as a certified public accountant. He drove a big silver Mercedes 380SE and looked the part of a prosperous citizen of stature, but his tastes were simple. In the evenings after work he would take his grandsons down to the park. On weekends he would take them to a movie. They watched "The Lion King" three times.

Glenn had no interest in politics. He did not listen to talk radio. The word militia had never crossed his lips. He had not given much thought to Ruby Ridge, or NAFTA, or anything else that was exercising so many Americans in the heartland, although he had cried watching the fiery denouement of the Branch Davidian siege. The knowledge that there were young children trapped inside was deeply disturbing to Glenn. But by and large he was a contented man, firm in his belief that the U.S. federal government was a force for good.

On Tuesday, April 18, 1995, Edye was sick with strep throat and stayed at home with the boys. The next day, Patriot's Day, she was still feeling ill, but her colleagues had made her a birthday cake so she made the extra effort and struggled in to work.

It was the usual morning ritual. The boys were in Edye's bed, one snuggled up on each side. Glenn and Kathy burst in singing "good morning to you," and the scramble began.

"Glenn was helping with Colton. He had him sitting up on the bar in the kitchen, putting on his little blue sandals," said Kathy. "When he finished, Glenn kissed him on the forehead and said 'You're a good boy. Papa loves you.'"

* * *

The bomb went off at 9:02 a.m.

Edye was about to blow out the candles on her birthday cake when the shock waves rocked the IRS building.

"I grabbed her and we rushed out into the street," recounted Kathy. "I could see smoke over towards the Murrah Building, and I screamed, 'Edye, the babies, the babies,' and we took off running."

"It was like the twilight zone. Big plate glass windows were still crashing out of the sky. There was this boom, boom, boom, and we saw all this black smoke everywhere. It was the cars going off in the parking lot."

"Then we saw it -- the total devastation -- and Edye crumbled to her knees. I put my arms around her and told her, 'It'll be alright.' But I knew it wasn't true. I knew already that our babies were gone."

Both boys were killed. A rescue worker had found Colton still breathing in the ruins, but he would not live long. His stomach had been ripped out. Kathy's grownup son Daniel had spotted the tiny two-year-old body laid out on a bench.

Glenn had already heard the news. When the women found him in the mayhem outside the Murrah Building, he was leaning over the hood of a pickup truck crying his heart out.

"That was when it all fell apart for Glenn," said Kathy. "It wasn't pancreatic cancer that killed him in the end. He really died of a broken heart."

That night they huddled together at home, silently watching the TV news. The camera picked out a solitary shoe on the edges of the smoking rubble. It was the blue sandal that Glenn had slipped onto Chase's tiny foot that morning.

Anger, grief, confusion -- it was the same for all the families. Glenn and Kathy turned the boys' room into a shrine, untouched from that day forth, the teddy bears stacked neatly on each of the little beds. The most poignant memento was a ticket found in Chase's pocket. It was for a Sesame Street Live show entitled "When I grow up."

Within days of the bombing, the rumors began to circulate. People talked of seeing bomb squads in downtown Oklahoma in the early hours of the morning before the blast. It was said that the ATF did not come to work that morning at the Murrah Building. The families noticed that none of the ATF agents were on the casualty list.

It was the usual sort of talk after a disaster of this scale. Glenn did not pay too much attention at first. He assumed like everybody else that the FBI and the U.S. Justice Department would do all they could to establish the truth. One hundred and sixty-eight people had been killed. It was the most deadly act of terrorism in the history of the United States. If there was a bomb squad on alert that morning, the full story would come out soon enough.

But Edye Smith began to sense that the Justice Department was dissembling. There was a hint of arrogance in the responses of U.S. Attorney Pat Ryan. The man was pleasant enough, but he did not make a serious effort to answer the questions of the families. When Edye asked where the ATF agents were on April 19 he brushed her off with a glib comment that they were playing in a golf tournament at Shawnee. He was mistaken. Some of the DEA were playing golf, but not the ATF.

She contacted the AFT directly, only to hear a babel of improvised spin. There were two ATF agents in their offices on the ninth floor that day, said one message on her answering machine. No, there were four, said another message, left by another official the same day. Edye was being trifled with. Her grief turned to anger. On May 23, 1995, the day the ruined Murrah Building was brought down with demolition charges, she erupted in a live interview on CNN.

"Where the hell was the ATF, I want to know?" she thundered, red hair flying in the breeze. "All fifteen or seventeen of their employees survived, and they were on the ninth floor. They were the target of this explosion, and where were they? Did they have a warning sign? Did they think it might be a bad day to go into the office? They had an option not to go to work that day, and my kids didn't. They didn't get that option. Nobody else in the building got that option. And we're just asking questions. We're not making accusations. We just want to know. And they're telling us: 'Keep your mouth shut, don't talk about it.'"

CNN cut her off soon enough, but the impact was searing. Edye Smith, aggrieved and defiant, had thrown down the gauntlet. There would be no turning back.

Deluged with calls from the media, the ATF issued a press release. "I strongly suspect that these malicious rumors are fueled by the same sources as the negative rhetoric that has been recently circulating about law enforcement officers," said Lester D. Martz, the special agent in charge of the Dallas regional office. "The facts are that the ATF's employees in Oklahoma City were carrying out their assigned duties as they would any workday, and several of them were injured in the explosion."

In fact, the only people in the office to suffer injuries were two clerical workers. None of the ATF's field agents were hurt.

If Lester Martz had stopped there, the matter might have subsided. But he overreached, the instinctive reflex of an agency accustomed to operating without accountability. "We were there, and we were heroes," he said. The ATF claimed that Alex McCauley, the resident agent in charge, was in an elevator when the bomb went off. He survived a free fall from the eighth to the third floor. McCauley escaped by breaking through the thick metal doors, and went on to rescue survivors in the stairwell.

If the ATF thought they could get away with this farrago, they had underestimated the 23-year-old redhead and her affable stepfather. Curiosity piqued, the Wilburns tried their hand as amateur sleuths. With the help of a freelance reporter, John "J. D." Cash, Glenn contacted the Midwestern Elevator Company, the firm that had actually searched the elevators for survivors.

"The first thing we did was split up and check, then double check, each elevator of occupants," explained Duane James, one of the engineers. "We found that five of the six elevators were frozen between floors, and a sixth had stopped near floor level. … We had to go in through the ceilings of the elevator to check for people. … All were empty."

Agent Alex McCauley could not possibly have broken out before the team arrived, said James, "not unless he had a blowtorch with him. … The doors were all frozen shut. … It took several of our men over twelve hours just to get the one elevator [opened]."

None of the elevators had been in a free fall. "That's pure fantasy. Modern elevators have counterbalances and can't free-fall unless you cut the cables, and none were. There are a series of backup safety switches that will lock an elevator in place if it increases in speed more than 10 percent."

The Midwestern Elevator Company took extensive photographs to document the inspection. These records were later reviewed by ABC's 20/20 program. The pictures confirmed that all the safety cables were intact.

As the details emerged, the ATF began to back away from its claims, suggesting that the blast created the sensation of a falling elevator. "Well, maybe Agent McCauley just imagined he free fell," said Lester Martz in a taped telephone interview with J. D. Cash.

Agent McCauley was transferred to Kansas City and quietly demoted. The Justice Department, however, clung resolutely to the story of his accomplishments. Joseph Hartzler, the chief prosecutor in the case against McVeigh, repeated the tale in a court filing on Nov. 7, 1996, dismissing any doubts about the matter as "outrageous." At the time, Hartzler already had the FD-302 witness statements given to the FBI by the elevator engineers, all concurring that the story was fabricated. But Hartzler has never been held to account for deliberately misinforming the court.

The Wilburns had walked through the looking glass. They now knew for a fact that the head of the ATF's office in Oklahoma City was a shameless liar. And they were learning that some of the others were just as bad. On May 24, 1995, the day after Edye's outburst on CNN, Glenn was visited by two ATF agents. It was a contentious meeting. Glenn pressed them hard. "Didn't April 19 have any significance to your people? You know, Patriot's Day, the Waco raid?"

"No, there was no alert, or any concern on our part about the significance of that," replied Luke Franey, an undercover agent who sported long hair and a ring in one ear.

Two hours later Glenn was watching the news. It was a live interview with John Magaw, the director of the ATF, explaining that the agency had taken special precautions on April 19. "I was very concerned about that day and issued memos to all our field offices. They were put on alert," said Magaw.

It was the lies that offended Glenn more than anything else. One lie, after another, after another.

Fresh leads were coming thick and fast. A sheriff's deputy had scribbled a quick note for Edye when he recognized her at the courthouse one day. Slipping the message into her hand, he added sotto voce: "God bless you people." The note said that Charles Gaines, chief of operations for the Oklahoma City Fire Department, had received a terrorism alert on Good Friday before the bombing.

Glenn paid the man a visit.

"I understand that the FBI called you," he said, glowering across the desk. "That's correct isn't it, Mr. Gaines?"

"I don't know what you're talking about."

"You know damn well what I'm talking about, you were put on alert five days before the bomb went off, weren't you?"

Gaines grabbed his hat and hurried out the door, saying that he was late for an appointment. Glenn wandered down the hall until he found an open door. It was the office of Harvey Weathers, the chief of dispatchers. He tried again.

"You're right," said Weathers. "We got a message from the FBI on the Friday before the bombing. We were told to be on alert for terrorist activity in the near future. I passed it down the line."

"Well, it looks like Chief Gaines's memory is failing. He said it never happened," said Glenn.

"You asked me, and I told you. I'm not going to lie for anybody."

TOMORROW: Despite total information blackout and denials on the part of the government, says Evans-Pritchard, "There was no question that there had been a bomb squad truck in downtown Oklahoma before the blast."

Read Part 1: 'The resurrection of President Clinton'

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's landmark book, "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton" is available from WorldNetDaily's online store.

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard has built a stellar career as a journalist, covering Central America for The Economist and The Daily Telegraph, and reporting from the United States for both The Spectator and The Sunday Telegraph, for which he was Washington bureau chief. Cambridge-educated and internationally renowned, Evans-Pritchard has recently returned to England, where he serves as The Daily Telegraph's roving European correspondent.

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[ovrtaxt]

The original thread is here. And the following is from post #19 on that thread, originally posted by Battle Axe. He can divulge the source for this, as I don't know it. But if he wrote this from his prison cell, it isn't the same document as the one found in his sister's car.*****************************************************************

This is Timothy McVeigh's manifesto as written from his cell in prison. It's probably in the Davis's book. Look at what he talks about..his subject....where would a normal white guy, even a white militia guy get this kind of bent???

Battle Axe
...........................................................
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An Essay on Hypocrisy
By Timothy McVeigh

Reprinted with permission from Media Bypass. Parthenocarpy is interested in any existing or future rebuttals of this essay.
Please contact us here to contribute.

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Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc. Editor's note: Timothy McVeigh, sentenced to death for his role in the April 19, 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City, penned the following essay, dated "March 1998," from his cell in the administrative maximum section of the federal prison in Florence, Colo. In a preface, McVeigh wrote "I have chosen Media Bypass as a possible forum for this piece because, frankly, I realize that it is quite provocative -- and I rather doubt that any mainstream media would touch it. [Note that although the enclosed is very provocative, it was written to provoke thought -- and was not written with malevolent intent.]"

McVeigh appologized for the essay being handwritten, but noted his "current (unique) environment does not provide access to a typewriter, a word processor or a copier. (hell, I'm lucky they let me have a pen!), so I hope you understand why this is being submitted handwritten -- and I hope you can overcome this shortcoming."

McVeigh, whose interview with Media Bypass [February 1996] was picked up and dissected by the New York Times and major media outlets across the nation, also expressed concerns that reporting subsequent to this essay might be "printed out of context... but at least the original can be accurate."

A decorated U.S. Army veteran of the Persian Gulf War, McVeigh hereby offers his contribution to the debate over U.S. policy toward Iraq, a policy that McVeigh says is marked by a "deep hypocrisy."

---

The administration has said that Iraq has no right to stockpile chemical or biological weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") -- mainly because they have used them in the past.

Well, if that's the standard by which these matters are decided, then the U.Sl is the nation that set the precedent. The U.S. has stockpiled these same weapons (and more) for over 40 years. The U.S. claims that this was done for deterent purposes during the "Cold War" with the Soviet Union. Why, then is it invalid for Iraq to claim the same reason (deterence) -- with respect to Iraq's (real) war with, and the continued threat of, its neighbor Iran?

The administration claims that Iraq has used these weapons in the past. We've all seen the pictures that show a Kurdish woman and child frozen in death from the use of chemical weapons. But, have you ever seen these pictures juxtaposed next to pictures from Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

I suggest that one study the histories of World War I, World War II and other "regional conflicts" that the U.S. has been involved in to familiarize themselves with the use of "weapons of mass destruction."

Remember Dresden? How about Hanoi? Tripoli? Baghdad? What about the big ones-- Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (At these two locations, the U.S. killed at least 150,000 non-combatants -- mostly women and children -- in the blink of an eye. Thousands more took hours, days, weeks, or months to die.)

If Saddam is such a demon, and people are calling for war crimes charges and trials against him and his nation, why do we not hear the same cry for blood directed at those responsible for even greater amounts of "mass destruction" -- like those responsible and involved in dropping bombs on the cities mentioned above?

The truth is, the U.S. has set the standard when it comes to the stockpiling and use of weapons of mass destruction.

Hypocrisy when it comes to death of children? In Oklahoma City, it was family convenience that explained the presence of a day-care center placed between street level and the law enforcement agencies which occupied the upper floors of the building. Yet when discussion shifts to Iraq, any day-care center in a government building instantly becomes "a shield." Think about that.

(Actually, there is a difference here. The administration has admitted to knowledge of the presence of children in or near Iraqi government buildings, yet they still proceed with their plans to bomb -- saying that they cannot be held responsible if children die. There is no such proof, however, that knowledge of the presence of children existed in relation to the Oklahoma City bombing.)

When considering morality and mens rea [criminal intent] in light of these facts, I ask: Who are the true barbarians?

Yet another example of this nation's blatant hypocrisy is revealed by the polls which suggest that this nation is greatly in favor of bombing Iraq.

In this instance, the people of the nation approve of bombing government employees because they are "guilty by association" -- they are Iraqi government employees. In regard to the bombing in Oklahoma City, however, such logic is condemned.

What motivates these seemingly contradictory positions? Do people think that government workers in Iraq are any less human than those in Oklahoma City? Do they think that Iraqis don't have families who will grieve and mourn the loss of their loved ones? In this context, do people come to believe that the killing of foreigners is somehow different than the killing of Americans?

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is?

I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma."

When a U.S. plane or cruise missile is used to bring destruction to a foreign people, this nation rewards the bombers with applause and praise. What a convenient way to absolve these killers of any responsibility for the destruction they leave in their wake.

Unfortunately, the morality of killing is not so superficial. The truth is, the use of a truck, a plane, or a missile for the delivery of a weapon of mass destruction does not alter the nature of the act itself.

These are weapons of mass destruction -- and the method of delivery matters little to those on the receiving end of such weapons.

Whether you wish to admit it or not, when you approve, morally, of the bombing of foreign tartgets by the U.S. military, you are approving of acts morally equivilent to the bombing in Oklahoma City. The only difference is that this nation is not going to see any foreign casualties appear on the cover of Newsweek magazine.

It seems ironic and hypocritical that an act viciously condemned in Oklahoma City is now a "justified" response to a problem in a foreign land. Then again, the history of United States policy over the last century, when examined fully, tends to exemplify hypocrisy.

When considering the use of weapons of mass destruction against Iraq as a means to an end, it would be wise to reflect on the words of the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. His words are as true in the context of Olmstead as they are when they stand alone:
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example."

Sincerely


Timothy J. McVeigh







Copyright (c) 1998, Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc.

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19 posted on 02/12/2004 9:11:04 AM EST by Battle Axe