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Terror on the dole (Islam in the UK: Muslims Show Loyality; Peaceful Intentions)
This Is London ^ | 4/21/2004 | agitate

Posted on 04/21/2004 2:31:18 PM PDT by Agitate

This is
LONDON
20/04/04 - London news section

This is via LittleGreenFootballs Blog

Terror on the dole
By David Cohen, Evening Standard

Four young British Muslims in their twenties - a social worker, an IT specialist, a security guard and a financial adviser - occupy a table at a fast-food chicken restaurant in Luton. Perched on their plastic chairs, wolfing down their dinner, they seem just ordinary young men. Yet out of their mouths pour heated words of revolution.

"As far as I'm concerned, when they bomb London, the bigger the better," says Abdul Haq, the social worker. "I know it's going to happen because Sheikh bin Laden said so. Like Bali, like Turkey, like Madrid - I pray for it, I look forward to the day."

"Pass the brown sauce, brother," says Abu Malaahim, the IT specialist, devouring his chicken and chips.

"I agree with you, brother," says Abu Yusuf, the earnest-looking financial adviser sitting opposite. "I would like to see the Mujahideen coming into London and killing thousands, whether with nuclear weapons or germ warfare. And if they need a safehouse, they can stay in mine - and if they need some fertiliser [for a bomb], I'll tell them where to get it."

His friend, Abu Musa, the security guard, smiles radiantly. "It will be a day of joy for me," he adds, speaking with a slight lisp.

As they talk, a man with a bushy beard, dressed in a jacket emblazoned with the word "Jihad", stands and watches over them, handing around cups of steaming hot coffee. His real name is Ishtiaq Alamgir, but he goes by his adopted name, Sayful Islam, meaning "Sword of Islam". He is the 24-year-old leader of the Luton branch of al-Muhajiroun, an extremist Muslim group with about 800 members countrywide, who regard Osama bin Laden as their hero.

Until recently, nobody took the fanatical beliefs of al-Muhajiroun too seriously, believing that a British-based group so brazenly "out there" could not be involved in something as "underground" as terrorism. The group is led by the exiled Saudi, Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammad, from his base in north London. Yesterday, in a magazine article, Bakri warned that several radical groups are poised to strike in London.

For all its inflammatory rhetoric, al-Muhajiroun has never been linked to actual violence. Yet, with the discovery last month of half-a-tonne of ammonium nitrate fertiliser - the same explosive ingredient used in the Bali and Turkey terror attacks - and with the arrest of eight young British Muslims in London and the South-East, including six in Luton, extremist groups such as al-Muhajiroun are under the spotlight like never before.

Detectives fear that the "enemy within", the homegrown extremists leading apparently normal lives in suburbia, now pose the greatest threat to security in Britain. Sayful and his friends fit this "homegrown" profile: three were born here, two came as young children from Pakistan; all were educated in local Luton schools; and they grew up in families of full employment - one of their fathers is a retired local businessman, two are engineers, and two worked in the local Vauxhall car plant.

The question is: how worried should we be? Is al-Muhajiroun nothing more than a repository for disaffected Muslim youths who have adopted an extreme interpretation of Islam - perhaps to cock a snook at the white establishment - but who are essentially posturing? Or does the group also perform a more sinister function, sucking in alienated young men and brainwashing the more impressionable into becoming future suicide bombers?

Although none of the arrested Muslims - aged 17 to 32 - appear to be current al-Muhajiroun members, rumours have circulated of informal links to the group. Moreover, parents of the arrested men have spoken anxiously of the "radicalising influence" of al-Muhajiroun militants who " corrupt" their children at mosques.

Nowhere has this public confrontation between radicals and moderates been more apparent than in Luton, which has the highest density of Muslims in the South-East - 28,000 out of a total population of 140,000 - and has long been regarded as a hotbed of extremism.

Sayful Islam, for one, is particularly proud of his contribution to Luton's hardline reputation. His exploits include covering the town with " Magnificent 19" posters glorifying the 11 September suicide bombers. "When I joined al-Muhajiroun four years ago, there were five local members," he says. "Now there are more than 50 and hundreds more support us."

The strange thing is that four years ago, Sayful Islam was a jeans-clad student completing his degree in business economics at Middlesex University in Hendon, north London.

The son of a British Rail engineer who came to this country from Pakistan, Sayful grew up in a moderate, middle-class Muslim family in Luton. At the local Denbigh High School, he is remembered as one of the smartest kids, and was selected to attend a science masterclass at Cambridge University. He would go on to marry, have two children and find work as an accountant for the Inland Revenue in Luton. He was thoroughly uninterested in politics.

THEN he met Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammad at a local event. Within two years, he had swapped his decently paid job as an accountant for an unpaid one as a political agitator. What turned him into an extremist? And how far is he prepared to go to achieve his aims?

Prior to seeing the group at the fastfood restaurant, Sayful meets me at his semi-detached rented home in Bury Park, Luton's Muslim neighbourhood. He no longer works, even though he is able-bodied, he admits, preferring instead to claim housing benefit and jobseeker's allowance. He smiles sheepishly and says the irony is not lost on him that the British state is supporting him financially, even as he plots to "overthrow it".

"I made a decision that I wanted to follow what Islam really said," Sayful begins, sitting on his sofa in his thowb (a traditional robe) and bare feet. "I went to listen to all the local imams, but I found their portrayal of Islam was too secularised. When I heard Sheikh Omar [the leader] of al-Muhajiroun speak, it was pure Islam, with no compromise. I found that appealing.

"At the same time," continues Sayful, "wars were happening in Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Afghanistan. People were being oppressed simply because they were Muslim. Although I had never experienced racism in the UK, it opened the eyes of a lot of Muslims, including mine."

But it was the events of 11 September that crystallised Sayful's worldview. "When I watched those planes go into the Twin Towers, I felt elated," he says. "That magnificent action split the world into two camps: you were either with Islam and al Qaeda, or with the enemy. I decided to quit my job and commit myself full-time to al-Muhajiroun." Now he does not consider himself British. "I am a Muslim living in Britain, and I give my allegiance only to Allah."

According to Sayful, the aim of al-Muhajiroun ("the immigrants") is nothing less than Khilafah - "the worldwide domination of Islam". The way to achieve this, he says, is by Jihad, led by Bin Laden. "I support him 100 per cent."

Does that support extend to violent acts of terrorism in the UK?

"Yes," he replies, unequivocally. "When a bomb attack happens here, I won't be against it, even if it kills my own children. Islam is clear: Muslims living in lands that are occupied have the right to attack their invaders.

"Britain became a legitimate target when it sent troops to Iraq. But it is against Islam for me to engage personally in acts of terrorism in the UK because I live here. According to Islam, I have a covenant of security with the UK, as long as they allow us Muslims to live here in peace."

HE USES the phrase "covenant of security" constantly. He attempts to explain. "If we want to engage in terrorism, we would have to leave the country," he says. "It is against Islam to do otherwise." Such a course of action, he says, he is not prepared to undertake. This is why, Sayful claims, it is consistent, and not cowardly, for him to espouse the rhetoric of terrorism, the "martyrdom-operations", while simultaneouslylimiting himself to nonviolentactions such as leafletting outside Luton town hall.

He denies any link between al-Muhajiroun and the Muslims arrested in the recent police raids. But, as I later discover at the fastfood restaurant, not everyone attaching themselves, however loosely, to al-Muhajiroun draws the same line. Two members of the group - Abu Yusuf, the financial adviser, and Abu Musa, the security guard - scorn al-Muhajiroun as "too moderate".

"I am freelance," says Abu Yusuf, fixing me with his piercing brown eyes. What does that mean? I ask.

"The difference between us and those two," interjects Abu Malaahim, pointing to Musa and Yusuf, "is that us lot do a verbal thing, [but] those brothers actually want to do a physical thing."

Referring to the latest truce offered by Bin Laden, and Britain's scathing rejection of it, Abu Malaahim adds: "He tried to make a peace deal. When terrorism happens, you will only have yourselves to blame."

How far are you prepared to go? I ask.

"You want to know how far I will go," says Abu Musa, his high-pitched lisp rising an octave. "When Allah said in the Koran 'kill and be killed', that's what I want. I want a martyr operation, where I kill my enemy."

Are you saying, I probe, that you are looking to kill people yourself ? "Yes," Abu Musa says, "to kill and to be killed." He emphasises each word.

What's stopped you doing it? "As you know from watching the news," intones Abu Yusuf, "there are brothers who do leave the country and do it." He is referring to the four Muslims from Luton who died fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the two British Muslims, said to have had ties to al-Muhajiroun, who last April left to become suicide bombers in Israel. "In-shallah [ Godwilling], there will be a time to go."

It is hard to know whether Musa and Yusuf are deadly serious or just pumped full of misguided, youthful bravado. Though I see coldness - even ruthlessness - in their eyes, I sense no malice. Both young men agree, perhaps foolishly, to be quoted using their real names, though they decline photographs - thus illustrating their uncertainty of which way to jump.

Muhammad Sulaiman, president of the Islamic Cultural Society, the largest of the 14 mosques in Luton, dismisses al-Muhajiroun as "verbal diarrhoea".

"They are an extreme Right-wing group - the Muslim version of the BNP," he says disdainfully. "They think Muslims should dominate, just like the BNP thinks whites should dominate. They use Islam as a vehicle to promote their distorted beliefs, particularly to unemployed young bloods who are vulnerable."

ALTHOUGH unemployment in Luton is just six per cent, the rate among Muslim youths is estimated at 25 per cent. "They are no more representative of our Muslim community than the BNP are of the white community."

Sulaiman insists that Sayful Islam and his crew are not welcome at the mosque. He cannot prevent them praying there, but he will never give them a platform. "I've told Sayful to bugger off and ejected him many times," he says brusquely. "Even Sayful's father, who I know well, thinks his son has been brainwashed."

But Sayful and his friends laugh at the idea that they are local pariahs. "The mosques say one thing to the public, and something else to us. Let's just say that the face you see and the face we see are two different faces," says Abdul Haq. "Believe me," adds Musa, "behind closed doors, there are no moderate Muslims."

They also mock the idea that they are attracted to al-Muhajiroun because they have suffered alienation from white society. "Do we look like scum?" they ask. "Do we look illiterate?"

As they call for the bill, Abu Malaahim flicks open his 3G mobile phone and, with a satisfied grin, displays the image, downloaded from the internet, of an American Humvee burning in Iraq.

Abu Yusuf says: "That's nothing. I downloaded the picture of the four burnt Americans hanging from the bridge." It's oneupmanship, al-Muhajiroun style.

Sayful, the only married one in the group, prepares to go home to his wife and children. Before he departs, he says he has a message to deliver.

"I want to warn that the police raids - if repeated - could create a bad situation.

"Islam is not like Christianity, where they turn the other cheek. If they raid our homes, it could lead to the covenant of security being broken.

"Islam allows us to retaliate. That would include" - he tugs his "Jihad" coat tight against the night air - "by violent means."



Find this story at http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/londonnews/articles/10329634?version=1
©2004 Associated New Media



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: british; brits; dhimmi; england; islam; jihad; london; moderatemuslim; muslim; sedition; terrorism; terrorist; treason; uk; waronterror

1 posted on 04/21/2004 2:31:19 PM PDT by Agitate
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To: Agitate
The headline and text were incongruous, to put it mildly. These muslims were not loyal to anything but hate.
2 posted on 04/21/2004 2:35:14 PM PDT by JeeperFreeper
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To: Agitate
You must have meant for your title to be sarcastic, right?

This column is originally called "Terror on the Dole" and there is nothing the least bit peaceful about this group of moslems in Luton, England.

They will be thrilled when England is attacked.
3 posted on 04/21/2004 2:37:16 PM PDT by texasbluebell
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To: JeeperFreeper
My attempt at distainful sarcasm.
4 posted on 04/21/2004 2:37:34 PM PDT by Agitate (littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog -Jihadwatch.org -Protestwarrior.com -Congress.org -ACLJ.org)
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To: Agitate
My favorite part of this column:

"The mosques say one thing to the public, and something else to us. Let's just say that the face you see and the face we see are two different faces," says Abdul Haq. "Believe me," adds Musa, "behind closed doors, there are no moderate Muslims."

5 posted on 04/21/2004 2:39:18 PM PDT by texasbluebell
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To: texasbluebell
You must have meant for your title to be sarcastic, right?
This column is originally called "Terror on the Dole" and there is nothing the least bit peaceful about this group of moslems in Luton, England.
They will be thrilled when England is attacked.


Definately, sorry if I misled. Again, My attempt at sarcasm, especially since I just read Jermaine Jackson's "it's a religion of peace" sputtering.
6 posted on 04/21/2004 2:41:25 PM PDT by Agitate (littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog -Jihadwatch.org -Protestwarrior.com -Congress.org -ACLJ.org)
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To: Agitate
Sorry. I'm a dummy often.
7 posted on 04/21/2004 2:43:11 PM PDT by JeeperFreeper
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To: texasbluebell
My favorite part of this column: "The mosques say one thing to the public, and something else to us. Let's just say that the face you see and the face we see are two different faces," says Abdul Haq. "Believe me," adds Musa, "behind closed doors, there are no moderate Muslims."

I agree...Even though I have a friend who is Muslim, he is in no way devout(sent his kids to a Christian daycare, married a Catholic, doesn't read the Koran) and would probably be killed by these people.
I believe that any Muslim who believes the whole Koran is the word of God would have to agree with these individuals.
8 posted on 04/21/2004 2:45:40 PM PDT by Agitate (littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog -Jihadwatch.org -Protestwarrior.com -Congress.org -ACLJ.org)
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To: JeeperFreeper
Sorry. I'm a dummy often.

LOL...everybody is, even if they pretend otherwise!
9 posted on 04/21/2004 2:47:57 PM PDT by Agitate (littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog -Jihadwatch.org -Protestwarrior.com -Congress.org -ACLJ.org)
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To: Agitate
Believe me, I know what you mean about sputtering.

I'm so mad lately I could spit.

This particular column has been getting on my nerves for a couple of days now, which is why I knew exactly what it was titled!

This one, and another one from the other day, the one about "Cleric says Attack on London Inevitable" (yeah, some cleric!) which is around here somewhere.

We'd better wake up. These jerks mean business.
10 posted on 04/21/2004 2:48:20 PM PDT by texasbluebell
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To: Agitate
"Islam is not like Christianity, where they turn the other cheek. If they raid our homes, it could lead to the covenant of security being broken.

"Islam allows us to retaliate. That would include" - he tugs his "Jihad" coat tight against the night air - "by violent means."

11 posted on 04/21/2004 2:49:26 PM PDT by PokeyJoe (FCC Warning: This post censored for an obvious Janet.)
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To: Agitate
Yes, your friend would be considered as much an infidel as we "Crusaders" are....
12 posted on 04/21/2004 2:49:40 PM PDT by texasbluebell
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To: Agitate
"Muslim show loyalty; Peaceful intentions."

First the weather pattern on Jupiter is changing.

What now?, Its snowing in hell, already!

Muslim are only loyal, to Allah the moon god. And the UK will figure that out, when they connect the dots as they say here in the US. Or all hell will break loose. And then it will be to little, to late to stop the madness and the killing.
13 posted on 04/21/2004 3:02:14 PM PDT by Warlord David
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To: texasbluebell
"The mosques say one thing to the public, and something else to us. Let's just say that the face you see and the face we see are two different faces," says Abdul Haq. "Believe me," adds Musa, "behind closed doors, there are no moderate Muslims."

Hope the city council in Michigan is prepared for these creatures when they start prayer calls 5 times a day.
14 posted on 04/21/2004 3:14:44 PM PDT by Wolfhound777 (It's not our job to forgive them. Only God can do that. Our job is to arrange the meeting)
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To: texasbluebell
"behind closed doors, there are no moderate Muslims."

I'm shocked!<> (Take the shot when you have it...Allah will sort them out.)

15 posted on 04/21/2004 3:20:39 PM PDT by blam
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To: texasbluebell; blam
Those advocating "behind closed doors there are no moderate Muslims", should perhaps look at the millions of Muslims fighting tyranny and terrorism in Iran and other countries.

The idea of there being no moderate Muslims is strongly advocated by Osama Bin Laden, Al-Sadr, Hezbullah in their global Jihad and given warm embrace by certain radical US Conservatives.

Seems like we have a strong alliance forming between certain elements in the US, the US Media, and Osama Bin Laden's crew to crush the moderates into having no voice...

Currently it's effectively working.

16 posted on 04/21/2004 3:41:22 PM PDT by freedom44
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To: freedom44
The Muslim moderates aren't making enough 'noise' to be heard. It is their responsibility...not mine.
17 posted on 04/21/2004 4:02:01 PM PDT by blam
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To: freedom44
I haven't heard one of those "moderate" moslems in the US speaking up against the radicals.

Where are they?
18 posted on 04/21/2004 4:10:21 PM PDT by texasbluebell
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To: Agitate
Well as I see of these things, England is as Saudi Arabia. Neither have much issue while their citizen islamics go to kill Russians, Jews, Serbs, Hindus or Makedonians....because they think then they immune...guess they have new things coming....kabooom England, should have stopped them before they go kill others to gain combat experience and bring it back to your chickenhouse.
19 posted on 04/21/2004 4:31:16 PM PDT by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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To: Agitate
Bring. It. On.

I would like nothing more than to personally send these guys and their comrades straight to Allah, Remington 700 style.

20 posted on 04/21/2004 4:34:38 PM PDT by FierceDraka (Service and Glory!)
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To: Agitate
Are you saying, I probe, that you are looking to kill people yourself ? "Yes," Abu Musa says, "to kill and to be killed." He emphasises each word.

Perhaps MI-5 can fulfill half of his wish.

21 posted on 04/21/2004 4:40:28 PM PDT by ThinkDifferent
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"Islam is not like Christianity, where they turn the other cheek."

Not all Westerners are Christian, dim-bulb!

My personal beliefs not only allow me to fight back, but to deliver massive punitive retaliation to all connected to the aggressor.

In addition, pre-emptive attacks are allowed when me or mine are so much as threatened.

Put ME in the White House - and the Left will remember the Administration of George W Bush as a sweet dream of Heaven.

22 posted on 04/21/2004 4:51:50 PM PDT by FierceDraka (Service and Glory!)
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To: Agitate
Thuggish peacocks. The level of immaturity and chest beating reminds me of insecure, incompetent, impotent bullies in the schoolyard. They are no different than dime-a-dozen gangbangers with their cans of spray paint and cowardly drive-by shootings who think they are clever because they rob rather than contribute. It's about achieving power through intimidation. The smallest and dullest of minds.. They might blow me up, but in the end, they'll achieve nothing. Absolutely nothing.
23 posted on 04/21/2004 6:42:09 PM PDT by misunderestimated
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To: Agitate
Save yourself Britain. Get them OUT!
24 posted on 04/21/2004 8:06:39 PM PDT by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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To: FierceDraka
Fascist Islamaniac said:
"Islam is not like Christianity, where they turn the other cheek."
FierceDraka:
Not all Westerners are Christian, dim-bulb!

My personal beliefs not only allow me to fight back, but to deliver massive punitive retaliation to all connected to the aggressor.


I am a Christian, and I agree with you about fighting back. What this Islamofascist doesn't understand is that the Bible also says there is:

a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build --Ecclesiastes 3:3-4.


He, like his fellow fascists in the KKK, twist scripture out of context. We have been and are being attacked by radical islam and pacifism is foolish.

25 posted on 04/21/2004 8:23:49 PM PDT by Agitate (littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog -Jihadwatch.org -Protestwarrior.com -Congress.org -ACLJ.org)
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To: misunderestimated
who think they are clever because they rob rather than contribute

Sounds like juvenile delinquents who sometimes know deep down that their feelings of inadequacies are justified by their inabilities to actually produce or procure by earning that which they take or destroy by force. It is so costly teaching thugs the err of their ways when the brains finally have to resort to violence in self defence, which is, in my opinion, a moral imperative.

excuse the rant

I prefer a mature American man who exercises self control to one of these sand rabbit wanna bes any day.
26 posted on 04/21/2004 8:51:29 PM PDT by BabsC
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To: FierceDraka
Hear! Hear! #22.
27 posted on 04/21/2004 8:53:48 PM PDT by BabsC
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To: Agitate
.

Agitate,


It's simple: Palestinians are the Gutter-Dogs of Hummanity.

Palestinians breed like sub-human vermin, then sacrifice their own children to become "Human Bombs", killing others' Children in the process.

Palestinians are typical of the Arab mental squalor that's condemned entire sub-continents to vast cesspools of poverty, disease, and brutal ignorance.

Palestinian Women are worthy of the Enslavement in which they and their Babies suffer eternal damnation, at the hands of Pseudo-Men whose Barbarism is only exceeded by their Pathetic Depravity towards the Moslem Boys playing at the local Mosque.

Palestinian Women could have rebelled against their Depraved Male Slave-Masters decades ago, as did their Asian and Western European sisters. But the Arab's racial cowardice (genetically inbred over the centuries) condemns Arab Men and Children to flee from genuine Honor just as disease flees from Penecilum.

Why does the entire World turn away in disgust at the Palestinians ?

Because even the monstrously evil Bolshevicks and Nazis had the courage to fight their enemies as Men, face-to-face, eyeball-to-eyeball.

Because even the deranged Japanese Kamakaze Pilots of World War II mustered the honor of a suicide-death in the face of Open Battle.

Accordingly, even fifty (50) years after World War II, American, Japanese, British, German and Russian soldiers will even toast together the mutal memory of their fallen comrades, because all were imbued with the Singular Honor of Men who Sacrificed Their Lives (on the field of battle) for their respective nations.

Palestinians ? They cannot even comprehend such Honor.

It's as foreign to Palestinians as America's Bill of Rights and the God-Ordained Right of Women to enjoy the blessings of life and family, without living as Dowery Slaves in the Shadow of Fear of being Burned at the Stake to satify the Satanic Monsters lurking in the Soul of every Islamic man.

Have I made my Point ?


Patton@Bastogne

Free Republic member since 1998.



.
28 posted on 04/21/2004 8:58:21 PM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Nuclear Victory in 2006 over Iran & North Korea !)
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To: Agitate; Regulator; cyborg; amanda99
"As far as I'm concerned, when they bomb London, the bigger the better," says Abdul Haq, the social worker. "I know it's going to happen because Sheikh bin Laden said so. Like Bali, like Turkey, like Madrid - I pray for it, I look forward to the day." "Pass the brown sauce, brother," says Abu Malaahim, the IT specialist, devouring his chicken and chips. "I agree with you, brother," says Abu Yusuf, the earnest-looking financial adviser sitting opposite. "I would like to see the Mujahideen coming into London and killing thousands, whether with nuclear weapons or germ warfare. And if they need a safehouse, they can stay in mine - and if they need some fertiliser [for a bomb], I'll tell them where to get it." His friend, Abu Musa, the security guard, smiles radiantly. "It will be a day of joy for me," he adds, speaking with a slight lisp.

See Reg, you're mixing up race with the evil that isIslam. Look at these people, they live in a country and wish to kill innocents. THat is whatIslam stands for -- cowardice, killing of innocents.
29 posted on 04/22/2004 12:18:08 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: Patton@Bastogne; Admin Moderator
Palestinians are the Gutter-Dogs of Hummanity.

You are WRONG and you are TWISTED and your statement against Palestinian Christians is racist and stupid. Palestinian and other Arab Christians are not evil.
30 posted on 04/22/2004 12:22:19 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: Patton@Bastogne
Have I made my Point ?

*No not really.
31 posted on 04/22/2004 5:46:12 AM PDT by cyborg (The 9-11 commission members have penis envy.)
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To: Cronos
.

Cronos,

You are WRONG and you are TWISTED and your statement against Palestinian Christians is racist and stupid. Palestinian and other Arab Christians are not evil.

Perhaps you're correct.

Maybe these Palestinian and other Arab Christians are NOT evil.

Maybe they've been too busy watching re-runs of "The Passion of Christ" to NOT protest:

1 - America's 911 Tragedy
2 - Arafat and Hamas butchering of innocent children
3 - OBL's Spanish massacre



I'll try to be more sympathetic to your point of view next time.

Really. I promise ...



Patton@Bastogne

Free Republic Member since 1998



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32 posted on 04/22/2004 6:06:58 AM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Nuclear Victory in 2006 over Iran & North Korea !)
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To: Cronos
These are the kinds of people that give muslims a bad name, do you think every muslim supported Bin Laden? do you think every muslim supported Saddam Hussien? or the Hamas groups? Some despise them and muslims hope that many others can look at these kinds of extremists and NOT judge every muslim by there actions. THe only ones that support them are muslims who got their mind corrupted by these leaders ideas. Its sick, it really is, but doesnt mean the the WHOLE religion of islam is based on what they do. DO you really think these guys read the koran daily, that they are forgived when they shot someone and right after wash their hands and go pray to god? i cant stand seeing them pray.
33 posted on 04/22/2004 8:02:34 AM PDT by amanda99
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To: Patton@Bastogne
Well, check out any CHRISTIAN Arab American website and you'll see the protests you want.
34 posted on 04/22/2004 8:29:33 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: amanda99
These are the kinds of people that give muslims a bad name, do you think every muslim supported Bin Laden? do you think every muslim supported Saddam Hussien? or the Hamas groups?

Do YOU hold the views that these BRitish slamic idiots hold? If yes, then why? If no, then why aren't you making your objections known in slamic lands?
35 posted on 04/22/2004 8:30:33 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: Cronos
See Reg, you're mixing up race with the evil that isIslam

I thought about your statement on that. And I think I disagree, and agree. Here's why:

The riots in Britain in 2001 were not limited to Muslims. There were also "South Asians" involved, which usually means Hindu Indians. This would be ordinary racial conflict, with a muted religious component; I doubt that a lot of the British working class cares much anymore whether someone is Anglican or a Rajneeshee.

So I agree that in the case of the Muslims, there is a strong, perhaps dominant religious component. But you cannot say that race conflict does not play a part in that - that's either wishful thinking in an attempt to remain politically correct, or merely deluding yourself. Both of these things - race and religion - lead to conflict, especially when one is identified with the other (as in "white Christian" and "Muslim Arab").

In the U.S., race conflict historically has not had a religious component - everyone was some flavor of Christian (the Black Muslims excepted). And to some extent, that led to an accomodation. As for Britain, I would say no such mitigating bond exists. As such, the twin conflicts of dissimilar race and religion will lead to guys like those quoted to doing something serious once they have the numbers to make them feel like they have some sort of political support.

Britain's a small place. A civil war on their soil would be rather intense, since the island won't leave anyone much space to get out of the way...kinda like a pressure cooker.

36 posted on 04/23/2004 10:40:44 PM PDT by Regulator
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