Army rushing more armored Humvees to Iraq

NJ.COM ^

[Cannoneer No. 4]

See NEWSWEEK: Study Suggests 1 in 4 Would Be Alive Today Had They Been in Properly Armored Vehicles

[SJSAMPLE]

Agreed.
We knew the occupation was coming.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

You're welcome. Glad you like me pinging you. I have been pinging a lot lately and have overpinged some folks.

[Rome2000]

An armored Humvee, the M1114, first appeared in 1993 but the Army initially ordered a few, apparently not envisioning post-Cold War conflicts and peacekeeping missions such as Somalia, Kosovo, Haiti and Iraq, where guerrilla attacks could come anywhere and anytime.

More of "Clintons military".

You would think after Somalia the vast majority in the inventory would be armored.

[Humidston]

You overpinging?? Naaah. Now if you want to see overpinging I can name names!! ;-)

[archy]

The M1114 is the MP vehicle. The people crying out for M1114's were never authorized to have them before. They have been tasked to perform MP functions and want the MP ride. They are a number of superior vehicles we could be buying.

Only because the Armored Security Vehicle designed for the MP convoy escort and roadwatch details was cancelled, leaving them with nothing but the Humvee and unarmoored trucks in whict to pull those duties.

We had the vehicle designed for the job, and let it go.

[archy]

See NEWSWEEK: Study Suggests 1 in 4 Would Be Alive Today Had They Been in Properly Armored Vehicles

See following instead.

ARMORED VEHICLES Click on the titles below to find US government reports identified by the key word or phrase ARMORED VEHICLES. Advanced Improved Performance Research Integration Tool (IMPRINT) vetronics Technology Test Bed Model Development - SEP 2003 Patterned Armor Performance Evaluation for Multiple Impacts - AUG 2003 Extending the Operational Relevance of the Current Heavy Mechanized and Armor Force to 2020 and Beyond - 06 JUN 2003 Where Is the Beef In the Objective Force? - 22 MAY 2003 Light Armored Vehicles in Operations Other Than War - 01 MAY 2002 Welding of Electron Beam Single Melt Ti-6Al-4V Plate - MAY 2002 See-Through Turret Visualization Program - JAN 2002 Cavalry Transformation: Are We Shooting the Horse Too Soon? - 2002 Acquisition of the Wide Area Munition - 24 OCT 2001 Modeling and Analysis of a 3-D Asymmetric Mine-Soil-Hull Floor Interaction Problems with Mine Buried in Dry and Wet Sand - SEP 2001 Advanced Penetrator Materials - 20 JUN 2001 NDIA/Army Conference on Armaments for the Army Transformation - 19 JUN 2001 After the Revolution. AMC's Role in Army Transformation - 19 JUN 2001 The Road To The Objective Force. "Armaments for the Army Transformation" - 18 JUN 2001 Future Combat Systems - 18 JUN 2001 TOW Bunker Buster - 18 JUN 2001 (Characteristics of) Critical Technologies for FCS - 18 JUN 2001 A Case Study of Acquisition Reform: Brigade Combat Team, the Vanguard for Army Transformation - JUN 2001 Vetronics Technology Testbed - 30 MAY 2001 Application of Aluminum Foam for Stress-Wave Management in Lightweight Composite Integral Armor - MAY 2001 Explicit Finite Element Methodologies for Simulating the Mega-Hertz Plate and the Ballistic Shock Simulator - MAY 2001 3 IBCT Transformation Update - MAY 2001 Mechanical and Ballistic Data for A12519 Plate, Forgings, and Weldments - APR 2001 Transforming in War: The Armored Infantry Battalions of World War II. A Small Unit Case Study - 06 MAR 2001 Structural Health Monitoring: Numerical Damage Predictor for Composite Structures - MAR 2001 Improving Strategic Responsiveness of the Transforming Force - 28 FEB 2001 Tanks in the Street: Lessons Learned Through Bytes not Blood - 02 FEB 2001 M1117 "Guardian" Armored Security Vehicle (ASV) Employment in Peace Operations - 01 FEB 2001 Accelerated Corrosion Analysis of Aluminum Armor Alloy 2519 With Nonchromate Conversion Coatings for DOD Applications - FEB 2001 Cost-Benefit Analysis of Single Siting Depot Level Maintenance for the Light Armored Vehicle - DEC 2000 Acquisition of the Armored Medical Evacuation Vehicle - 22 NOV 2000 Cost-Effective Manufacturing of Damage-Tolerant Integral Armor - SEP 2000 Developing a Transient Finite Element Model to Simulate the Launch Environment of the 155-mm SADARM Projectile - SEP 2000 A 3-Dimensional Dynamics Model for Generating Tracked Vehicle Seismic Signals - SEP 2000 Doctrinal Orphan or Active Partner: A History of U.S. Army Mechanized Infantry Doctrine - 02 JUN 2000 The Commanders' Integrated Training Tool for the Close Combat Tactical Trainer - 2: Second Generation Design and Prototype Development - JUN 2000 Wheels and Tracks Study (10-25 Ton Armoured Fighting Vehicles) - MAR 2000 Short Range Air Defense in Army Divisions: Do We Really Need It - 01 FEB 2000 Advanced Gun System (AGS) Dynamic Characterization: Modal Test and Analysis, High-Frequency Analysis - DEC 1999 Development of a Distributed Direct Current Sensor System for Intelligent Resin Transfer Molding - NOV 1999 Procurement Practices for the Composite Armored Vehicle and Composite Affordability Initiative Programs - 26 OCT 1999 Field Demonstration of Biodegradable Hydraulic Fluid in Military Tactical and Construction Equipment - JUL 1999 Law Enforcement Support Office (LESO) 1999 National Conference - 04 JUN 1999 Armored Rangers: Us Army Ranger Regiment Need Armored Vehicles to Enhance it: Forced Entry Capability? - 04 JUN 1999 The Combat System Design and Test Criteria for Iguana TM Armored Vehicles - JUN 1999 Performance Analysis of the Advanced Amphibious Assault Vehicle Personnel Variant (AAAV-P) Vetronics Communications System High Speed Data Bus - JUN 1999 Dermal Absorption of Chemicals From Evaporating Vehicle Mixtures - 30 APR 1999 The Commanders' Integrated Training Tool for the Close Combat Tactical Trainer: Design, Prototype Development, and Lessons Learned - APR 1999 Tanks: Fulfilling a Role in Military Operations in Urban Terrain (MOUT) - 17 DEC 1998 Division XXI CSS: Value Added or Just a Repeat of History - 16 DEC 1998 Analysis of the Operating Costs for Light Armored Vehicles in the United States Marine Corps - DEC 1998 Armor: the Professional Development Bulletin of the Armor Branch PB-17- 98-6. November-December 1998, Vol. CVII, No. 6 - DEC 1998 Proceedings of the 9th Annual TARDEC Ground Vehicle Survivability Symposium, March 31 - April 2, 1998, Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey, CA. Volume I - JUN 1998 The Marine Corps Operational Maneuver Group: A Critical Look - 18 MAY 1998 A Graphical User Interface (GUI) for Automated Classification of Bradley Fighting Vehicle Shock Absorbers - FEB 98 Department of the Army, Procurement Programs, Committee Staff Procurement Backup Book, FY 1999 Budget Estimates, Other Procurement, Army, Activity 1, Tactical and Support Vehicles - FEB 1998 New Armor Force for the Marine Corps - 15 JAN 98 Co-Injection Resin Transfer Molding for Optimization of Integral Armor - 1998 Army TACMS Block II Payload Section Development - 1998 Characterization and Magnetic Augmentation of a Low Voltage Electromagnetic Railgun - DEC 1997 History of Current U.S. Rapid Obscuration Systems - DEC 1997 Inspecting for Corrosion of Shipboard Conduits and Shield-to-Ground Adapters with Low-Bandwidth Pulsed-Current Injection - DEC 97 Army Armored Systems: Meeting Crusader Requirements Will Be A Technical Challenge - 06 JUN 97 Part II - The Offense: M1A2s, Smart Ammunition, and Time and Space Theory - 01 APR 1997 Simulating Firing Loads Provides Flexibility, Test Repeatability - 20 MAR 97 Deep Battle in World War I: The British 1918 Offensive in Palestine - FEB 97 Where's the Light Armor? Enhancing the Firepower of Early Entry Forces - 30 DEC 96 Peace Operations: Is There a Need for Wheeled Armored Vehicles? - 20 DEC 1996 The U.S. Army Heavy Division: An Appropriate Platform for Force Projection Operations? - 20 DEC 96 Durability and Life Assessment for Affordable Manufacturing of Polymer- Matrix Composites - 18 NOV 96 Failure Analysis and Mechanical Tests of Failed Aluminum Alloy 7277 Rivets on Armored Vehicle Launched Bridges - SEP 96 Research in Close-In Blast Loading From High Explosives - SEP 96 Technology Demonstration of Single Hydraulic Fluid for Armored Ground Vehicle Systems - AUG 96 Air Mech XXI: New Revolution in Maneuver Warfare - 07 JUN 96 Operational Vigilant Warrior: Conventional Deterrence Theory, Doctrine, and Practice - JUN 1996 A Markov Model for Parametric Sensitivity Analysis of Crusader Effectiveness - JUN 96 Steady State Analysis of Weapon Charging Systems for EM Guns - JUN 96 Job Aid for an Automated Battalion Tactical Operations Center: Combat Vehicle Command and Control (CVCC) Application - JUN 96 Mechanization and the U.S. Marine Corps: Effective or Not? - 30 APR 96 View Problems with Driving the YPR-765 Under Armour (Uitzichtproblemen bij onderluiks besturen van de YPR-765) - 17 APR 96 Combinatorial Solid Geometry Target Description Standards - APR 96 On a Pure Finite-Element-Based Methodology for Resin Transfer Mold (RTM) Filling Simulations - MAR 96 Improving Trajectory Predictions for Short Baseline Line-of-Bearing Tracking Systems - FEB 96 Dynamic Deformation of a Ceramic/GRP Composite From KE Impact - JAN 96 Slid Fire Control System Integrated Sensor Suite - 1996 The Effects of 1985 Defense Policy on the Defense Infrastructure of Turkey - DEC 95 Acquisition, Streamlining and Lessons Learned Report for Crusader the Self-Propelled Howitzer (SPH) and Resupply Vehicle (RSV) - 30 NOV 95 Force Wars, A Model of Army Systems in Combat Including Fratricide - OCT 95 The CFE Treaty: Building European Security. Strategic Forum. Number 48, October 1995 - OCT 1995 Advanced Low-Cost Composite Curing with High Energy Electron Beams - 12 JUL 95 Selected Aspects of the Saudi Arabian National Guard Security AssistanceProgram - 26 JUN 1995 The U.S. Army's Mechanized Cavalry Doctrine in World War II - 02 JUN 95 Engineer Field Squadron: A New Engineer Organization for Operations Other Than War (OOTW) - 16 MAY 95 Float Like a Butterfly, Sting Like a Bee. Middleweight Units and the U. S. Army - 05 MAY 95 Greasy Automatons and The Horsey Set: The U.S. Cavalry and Mechanization, 1928 - 1940 - MAY 95 Future Armored Resupply Vehicle (FARV) Conceptual Fuel System Design - 01 MAR 95 Motion Resistance of Wheeled Vehicles in Snow - MAR 95 Conference on Nonlinear Vibrations, Stability, and Dynamics of Structures Held June 12-16, 1994 (5th) - FEB 95 Cost Benefit Comparison of the Tactical Combat Operations, Armored Vehicle Variant and the Multi-Application Command and Control Kit - DEC 94 Improved Hardness RHA Weldability and Material Property Testing - DEC 94

[AUsome Joy]

I finally found Vallely's picture and it was his son that they said had died at Ft. Bragg. FoxNews showed a picture of the two of them. He was in Special Forces. They said it was his only son.

His son was taller than him and very nice looking. If I find any other information I will post it. My heart grieves for him.

[AUsome Joy]

http://www.vallely.com/general.html
Link to Vallely's Bio and picture of him.

[Iris7]

I have been suggesting the Israeli RAM vehicles in this application on this forum for some time. The existing US designs are not suitable.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/light_combat_vehicles/ram/Ram.html

[archy]

I have been suggesting the Israeli RAM vehicles in this application on this forum for some time. The existing US designs are not suitable.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/light_combat_vehicles/ram/Ram.html

I'm thinking Diesel reengined Russian BTR-152s. They're 6x6 so if one tire gets shot flat, that side still remains supported by the other two; if it's the front tire, the two rear drive wheels have enough power to at least move the vehicle out of the beaten kill zone. Not RPG proof, but there's no shortage of chainlink fencing for RPG screen rolls, and a BTR-152's plate armor will at least turn AK hits. And there's enough room in the back of a BTR 152 for an M55 quad .50 power mount or a twin 12,7mm DShK M38/46 mounting plus two 7,62 PK MGs.

But hey, if you'rather run in and maintain a RAM, that's cool. I don't see that the RAM is particularly better than the cancelled XM1117 ASV, but it's no worse either, and an amphib capability is probably unnecessary for the project at hand. Just let me know before 05 May.

The minimum called for is a guntruck/armored car front and rear; I'd prefer to see that plus two spares in column. Better to have and not need than to need and not have. Saddle up FReepers; there's convoys waiting for escorts:

FBO DAILY ISSUE OF MARCH 27, 2004 FBO #0852
SPECIAL NOTICE

99 -- Request for Information for security of convoys

Notice Date

3/25/2004

Notice Type

Special Notice

NAICS

488490  Other Support Activities for Road Transportation

Contracting Office

Other Defense Agencies, Coalition Provisional Authority, Republican Presidential Compound, Republican Presidential Compound APO, Baghdad, Iraq, AE,

09335

ZIP Code

09335

Solicitation Number

FY5866-04-RFI-0003

Response Due

4/6/2004

Archive Date

4/21/2004

Point of Contact

Laurie Pierce, Contracting Officer, Phone 703-343-9225, Fax 703-343-9227,

E-Mail Address

piercel@orha.centcom.mil

Description

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION This is a request for information from interested parties. We are interested in whether or not you have the capability to fulfill the potential requirement that follows and a rough order of magnitude relating to price. The Coalition Provisional Authority, Iraq is considering entering into contract for the security of convoys between CSC Navistar, Kuwait (long. 47.71E, lat. 30.09N); CSC Cedar, Iraq (long. 46.42E, lat. 30.61N); Scania, Iraq (long. 44.73E, lat. 32.31N) and the following depots: Latifiya, Iraq (long. 44.37E, lat. 32.55N); Mushada, Iraq (long. 44.12E, lat. 33.65N); Rasafa, Iraq (long. 44.52E, lat. 33.48N); Diwaniya, Iraq (long. 44.89E, lat. 31.98N); Hilla, Iraq (long. 44.44E, lat. 32.51N); An Najaf, Iraq (long. 44.32E, lat. 32.01N); Kut, Iraq (long. 45.81E, lat. 32.50N) and Nasiriyah, Iraq (long. 46.19E, lat. 31.04N).

The contractor will provide all labor, rations, equipment and weapons to safely escort humanitarian fuel convoys from the Kuwaiti border to various fuel depots from Nasiriyah to just north of Baghdad. There will be approximately 8 convoy packages per day departing from NAVSTAR at the Iraqi-Kuwaiti border to the following depots: Latifiya, Mushada, Rasafa, Diwaniya, Hilla, An Najaf, Kut and Nasiriyah.

Typical convoy round trip time is currently 8 days, with overnight stays possible at Cedar and Scania as well as various fuel depots. Coalition Forces provide security at Cedar and Scania. Ministry of Oil provides security within the perimeter of the depots. The contractor is responsible for all security between these points. The contractor shall provide security for each convoy, usually 20 to 30 trucks per convoy, with at least two vehicles; one in front and one in the back.

Contractor vehicles will be marked to allow clear identification by Coalition Forces. Each vehicle will be manned by three personnel. Each vehicle shall have a Government approved automatic, mid to long range weapon mounted such that it can provide 360-degree coverage around the vehicle. Additionally, each security person in the vehicle shall have a personal automatic rifle that is approved by the Government. Each vehicle shall have the ability to communicate via radio and Thuraya or equivalent communication with each other and each of the staging points (Scania, Navistar, and Cedar). The contractor is responsible for having a representative at these sites that will act as a liaison with the military and maintains communication with the convoy escorts at all times. Coalition Forces are responsible for providing a quick reaction force if the contractor notifies the military that the convoy has come under attack.

The contractor is required to display or wear any uniforms designated by the government and display colors, tape, radar reflectors, or markings on their vehicles as dictated by the government. The contractor shall coordinate all movements with the military liaison designated by the government. The contractor is responsible for all maintenance, fuel, ammunition, etc for their vehicles. Convoys will operate exclusively during daylight hours. The military reserves the right to determine when a convoy can leave and enter compounds. The contractor is not required to escort during periods of darkness or severely reduced visibility.

The Government will be held harmless, and is not liable for any damage caused by acts of war, aggression or natural disasters effecting contractor vehicles or personnel. The contractor is responsible for their own supply and re-supply of ammunition. Quantities and types of ammunition on hand must be approved by the Government. The Government reserves the right to disallow convoy movements if the preparation of the contractor is deemed inadequate.

The contractor is responsible for providing first responder medical care to its own personnel. The contractor shall be given military medical care in the event of an emergency and is authorized to utilize the emergency medical frequency. The contractor shall be paid based on the number of convoys escorted to final destination.

These prices shall be fixed price and not subject to redetermination. This is not a request for quote. Information provided is completely voluntary. This RFI does not in any way constitute intent by the Government to form a contract.

Contact Information Following is the point of contact for this RFI: Ms. Laurie Pierce (703) 343-9225 piercel@orha.centcom.mil Please submit responses via e-mail in Microsoft Office format by 1700 hours (local Baghdad time) on 5 April 2004.

[Darksheare]

Heck, for battery defense I was thinking of 'borrowing' the Humvee bodied 'Avenger" system.
Twin 30mm's would be a great boon for land defense.
Of course, the Stinger pods would have to go as Stingers don't make good anti-personnel rockets.
However, 2.75 inch Hydra 70 FFAR's do, and replacing the Stinger pods with Hydra 70's would be nice.
Port out the Avenger weaponstation to a different vehicle with the above mentioned modifications, and it may be the start of a different kind of defensive weapon.
A few of such vehicles in a convoy may be interesting to see.
BTR-152's?
Interesting.
Would the Avenger weapon station fit in the back as well?

[1Old Pro]

the M1114 probably ranks No. 1 on the wish list of many soldiers in Iraq, since it can stop AK-47 bullets, anti-personnel RPGs and most roadside bombs and mines

Sheesh, let's get the factories rolling then.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Gee whiz, archy. That was a lot of HTMLing. Thanks.

[archy]

the M1114 probably ranks No. 1 on the wish list of many soldiers in Iraq, since it can stop AK-47 bullets, anti-personnel RPGs and most roadside bombs and mines

Sheesh, let's get the factories rolling then.

Gently, gently. Yep, I expect the factories should turn some out: they'd be a good replacement for unarmored 4-wheeled Humvees, and they're air transportable so can be delivered in-theater by C130 anywhere a localized uprising or assault might erupt; just the ticket for about half the equipment for a light reaction force.

But a 4-wheeled vehicle of any sort is at a disadvantage in sand; that's been known since the German Kfz221 and 222 of the AfrikaKorps, replaced by larger and more powerful vehicles that could unstick themselves and each other...and with larger crews to shovel sand and pull sand mats. Shoot off or burn off one wheel on a 4-wheeler, and the vehicle tips toward that missing wheel, often lifting the one on the other side off the ground, cutting the ability of the vehicle to get itself out of a bad place by half. On road, the 4 wheelers will probably do okay, off road might be something else again.

The 8-wheeled Stryker is overlarge and expensive; the 4-wheelers in some ways are too light and small. But during WWII we used the more-or-less successful M8 and M20 Greyhound, and the Spanish 6-wheeler is similar, though Diesel engined.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Sounds like a job for the HEMAT gun truck

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Who will go?

Send me.

[archy]

Heck, for battery defense I was thinking of 'borrowing' the Humvee bodied 'Avenger" system. Twin 30mm's would be a great boon for land defense. Of course, the Stinger pods would have to go as Stingers don't make good anti-personnel rockets.

However, 2.75 inch Hydra 70 FFAR's do, and replacing the Stinger pods with Hydra 70's would be nice. Port out the Avenger weaponstation to a different vehicle with the above mentioned modifications, and it may be the start of a different kind of defensive weapon. A few of such vehicles in a convoy may be interesting to see.

BTR-152's?

Interesting.

Would the Avenger weapon station fit in the back as well?

I wouldn't be surprised; if not, it could probably be fitted to the Czech OT-62 *Scot*...or the Isrtaeli Machbet could be fitted, very similar to the Avenger, and now replacing the weapons station on all the Israeli M163 Vulcan AA M113A1 tracks. Just replace the Stinger missile with a helicopter pod full of Hydra missiles with a tasteful mix of flechette and HE rockets, and you'd have the functional equivalent of the old *Slammer VI* mini-MLRS system that the 82nd Airborne experimented with in the late 1970s.

Another possibility: the old M55 quad .50 mount with the two bottom .50s replaced with 4 M240 7,62mm MGs instead...and the top two replaced with a pair of 40mm Mk19 grenade launchers.

Yes, I've got a line on a dozen surplussed M55 quad .50 mounts. Hehhehheh....

[archy]

Who will go?

Send me

You don't even want to hear the pay scales yet? I figure a platoon per convoy, 4 gun trucks, an armored ambulance and ... one car with radios and a little something extra. 4-6 guys per truck, a driver and medic in the band-aid car, so something like 20-30 people per comvoy, NOT the *one truck in front, one in back* called for in the proposal. BTW, the feller I have pencilled in as company commander is a former redleg LTC.

That's enough to split off and cover a second convoy or a breakdown if necessary, or for half to babysit the convoy while two or three fight and troublemakers.

Of course, a unit patch/insignia would be necessary....

[Darksheare]

"Just replace the Stinger missile with a helicopter pod full of Hydra missiles with a tasteful mix of flechette and HE rockets, and you'd have the functional equivalent of the old *Slammer VI* mini-MLRS system that the 82nd Airborne experimented with in the late 1970s."
"Yes, I've got a line on a dozen surplussed M55 quad .50 mounts. Hehhehheh...."

It's an idea.
*chuckle*
Heck, Zuni rockets would do in a pinch as well in the helipods.
The Mk19's are an idea as well, a dual mount on them and quad mg's o nhand as well, sweet.
Have a mix of the rocket pods, and other similar stuff, and that makes defense interesting.
Wonder who'd be stupid enough to mess with a convoy thus armed?