JOHN KERRY'S QUIET COLLAPSE

New York Post ^ | 4/27/04 | JOHN PODHORETZ

[goldstategop]

They're pledged to vote for the candidate they're committed to but if he releases them, they can vote for any one they want. An open Democratic Convention would be a heck more exciting than four nights of Kerry.

[AntiGuv]

Please tell me I am having a tin foil moment.

I can't. Once upon a time, I had no doubt that whoever won the Dem primaries would be the nominee. Now, I'm honestly not so sure. They are perfectly able to nominate someone else if they so choose - and definitely if Kerry himself is somehow persuaded to drop out (or dies) - and I can't help but think that the Democrats are aware of the option..

BTW, I gave some thought to what would happen if Kerry dropped out after the convention. So long as it was before the state ballot deadlines [in September], then the Democratic Party could proceed to nominate someone else by whatever procedure they agreed upon. I imagine that they would reconvene another convention.

If he dropped out after that (or died - I've actually wondered about this before) then they would have two options.

First, they could again nominate someone else and petition the legislatures and the courts state-by-state to permit access to the ballot (it would probably end up in the Supreme Court for at least some number of states).

Second, they could just run the campaign & election with his name on the ballot, which would be much more complicated. This would definitely be the case if a presidential nominee died, say, the night before the election.

Anyhow, if Bush received an electoral majority, then no problem things just carry on. If Kerry (or whatever is on the ballot line) receives a majority, then things get very interesting. Those electors become uncommitted and they can then cast their vote for whoever they want, even for Kerry or whatever. If a majority of them cast their votes for one candidate (say, Kerry's VP nominee) then that person becomes President (so long as he or she is eligible). If a majority of these now-uncommitted electors can't agree (in other words, if no one gets a majority) then it just goes to the U.S. House of Representatives (and the Senate elects the Vice President).

If none of that works out then the line of succession kicks in and the Speaker of the House becomes President.

[DB]

I don't know, but I think delegates can ultimately vote however they want. They are suppose to represent the voters from all those earlier primaries and to do something else is a betrayal of those voters.

[Prince Charles]

I wonder if there are any Secret Service logs in the National Archives or at the Nixon library from that day that would clear this up.

[AntiGuv]

To be clear, that means if a majority of the total electors can agree, then whoever they choose becomes President. The way I worded it it's as if I'm saying a majority of just the uncommitted electors from the candidate who dropped out if he would've got a majority of the electoral votes had he stayed in.

[GottaLuvAkitas1]

"I don't know, but I think delegates can ultimately vote however they want."

Yup, they can.

[GOPyouth]

Kerry looked absolutely horrible today on GMA. If the press decides to go after this, this will severely hurt Kerry. Running for the top office of this country is quite difficult when you are on tape/photo/audio protesting against your country, throwing away your medals, cheering with Hanoi Jane, and so-on.

[claudiustg]

Bush is leading the war on terror and Kerry is arguing about throwing ribbons and medals at the White House. Priceless.

[Prince Charles]

[Capitalism2003]

I think we should do it now...pull out all the stops...lower the public's opinion of Kerry considerably...If we do this at a grassroots level, getting the necessary info into every local paper and running early ads in battleground states, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kerry drop to 35% nationwide...He may well rally up into the mid 40's by the democratic convention, but Bush will still have the lead, and he will still have his huge campaign fund to unload in the final months. I think we should soften Kerry up now...hit him with everything we have, then let the Bush team deliver the final blow.

[Bonaparte]

It's in the National Archives and has already been dug out by the Republicans.

[Prince Charles]

Cool. Now if only the medals can be located in a dusty file somewhere they can be thrown right back in Lurch's face.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

What's to clear up?

Medals = Ribbons (according to Kerry)

So if he tossed the ribbons and kept the medals he can say he did both. If the pictures show the ribbons flying like hand grenades, they were weighted with somebody else's medals. He's got every angle covered.

On the one hand, this issue is a distraction from the real issue: Kerry disrespects the military, disrespected his own service and did damage to the country with this symbolic act and others.

On the other hand, this petty discrepancy and Kerry's evasions are what brings and keeps the larger issue now even in the mainstream media for a long period of time who otherwise wouldn't bother mentioning it, which is what it takes to bring the larger issue gradually into the conscious brain of the uninvolved part of the electorate.

[DB]

And then during the dim's convention Kerry gets replaced by Hillary or someone else. Then what?

Trying to dig up background on a new dim candidate only months before a national election would be virtually impossible. All the Bush commercials against Kerry are already being made. Just like Dean, people are always excited about a candidate they really don't know anything about because they envision the person the way they want until proven otherwise.

What you suggest is a recipe for disaster if you ask me.

[Sabertooth]

I have no idea what happens if he quits after the convention, especially if its after the state deadlines to appear on the ballot. Hmm.. I'm gonna try to figure that one out.

In 1972, Senator Thomas Eagleton had to step down as George McGovern's VP candidate after the Democrat convention. McGovern picked Sargent Shriver as his Veep for the ticket several weeks later, and the Dem delegates approved him almost unanimously. There was no second convention, to my recollection, though I'm not sure how the delegates were polled.

[Sen Jack S. Fogbound]

"They're pledged to vote for the candidate they're committed to"

I may be wrong but I believe they are committed for Kerry only for the first ballot. After that, if he doesn't get the simple majority, the convention is open!

[Mo1]

There was no second convention, to my recollection, though I'm not sure how the delegates were polled.

It's my understanding that the delegates do have to vote on Kerry .. but they can also have another vote and nominate someone else if Kerry doesn't get a majority

I also read a comment from a Freeper that the DNC are replacing many of the delegates and many are ticked off by that ... I don't know how true that is though..

And take note that the dem candidates never dropped out of the race .. they just withdrew from the primary race

Also to throw into the mix ... remember what happen with Torricelli

I honestly have no idea what the DNC/Hellery are up to .. but you can bet they are up to no good

[Mo1]

I may be wrong but I believe they are committed for Kerry only for the first ballot. After that, if he doesn't get the simple majority, the convention is open!

That's my understanding of the rules

[C210N]

John Kerry DID NOT, let me repeat, DID NOT throw away any medals over any fence in 1971, his or anyones elses.

What he did throw, however, were his 'mettles'. He threw his Mettles over the fence.

Main Entry: met'tle

Pronunciation: 'met-'l

Function: noun

1 : SPIRIT : COURAGE

2 : quality of temperament

[stocksthatgoup]

So if he tossed the ribbons and kept the medals he can say he did both. If the pictures show the ribbons flying like hand grenades, they were weighted with somebody else's medals. He's got every angle covered.
Remember Kerry said he tossed the other guys' medals after the ceremony.