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The End of Europe
Newsweek ^ | May 3 issue | Michael Meyer

Posted on 05/04/2004 3:05:50 PM PDT by Eurotwit

"If this is the end of old Europe, what is now beginning," asks Tony Judt, director of the Remarque Institute at New York University. As he and many others see it, Europe's future will be managing its growing diversity. Mounting immigration, especially Muslim, will increasingly alter Europe's ethnic and cultural landscape. Changing demographics will undermine Europe's traditional social-welfare states. If old Europe faced the challenge of integrating like with like, the new Europe must reconcile unlike with unlike, grappling with prickly issues of minorities, wealth versus poverty and national identity. "It will be an era of discord and civilizational clashes within states and communities," says Judt, "no longer mainly among them." Europe's disparate citizenry will argue for their very different interests and priorities with increasing vehemence, all the more so if Europe's economy does not keep pace with the region's expectations. The cozy days of a close and like-minded European club are gone. Back to the future? It looks very much that way.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: europe
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To: bigcheese
"Even the really bad apple Mexican is not going to blow up a mall."

They just blow up my car tires when I fail to check for strategically-placed beer bottles. As much as I hate their music it certainly beats the sound of someone beating nine cats in a bag that the Middle Easterners torture their psyches with.
21 posted on 05/04/2004 4:31:26 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus
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To: Eurotwit
I know Tony Judt pretty well. He's extremely bright but he's also a British Marxist with lots of lingering class resentments.

This article is a big understatement. You aren't going to have arguments or disputes among various ethnic groups. You're going to have Muslims going after people with guns, bombs, knives, and machetes, the way the do all over the rest of the world when they find any infidels in the neighborhood.
22 posted on 05/04/2004 4:36:40 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: bigcheese
I have said the same thing often. If you have to be overrun with illegal immigrants, I'll take Hispanics or Asians any day. Almost all the immigration into Europe is by Muslims. Big, big trouble.
23 posted on 05/04/2004 4:38:43 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Porterville
Seriously, it is going to be a bumpy ride, but I think you are deluding yourself if you think the mujaheedin will be fighting the good fight against some socialist Europe.


I've seen the future: it's scary and Belgian
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1124886/posts
24 posted on 05/04/2004 4:40:19 PM PDT by Eurotwit
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To: Cicero
Yeah.

I just read this old thread on what is going on in Belgium. It's frankly shocking. There are already suburbs and urban areas that are virtual no-ho zones for kuffars. It is going to be a bumpy ride.


I've seen the future: it's scary and Belgian
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1124886/posts
25 posted on 05/04/2004 4:44:20 PM PDT by Eurotwit
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To: John Vaught
That's an interesting point, John. A "gleeful, suicidal impulse" does permeate the American intelligentsia and fires the knee-jerk anti-American cynicism of American journalists.
26 posted on 05/04/2004 4:44:28 PM PDT by Savage Beast ("Whom will the terrorists vote for? Not George Bush--that's for sure!" ~Happy2BMe)
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To: Unam Sanctam
I agree. Future generations of Americans will rejoice that the U.S. was invaded by Mexicans and not Muslims. Future generations of Europeans will curse their parents.
27 posted on 05/04/2004 4:46:47 PM PDT by Savage Beast ("Whom will the terrorists vote for? Not George Bush--that's for sure!" ~Happy2BMe)
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To: Steve_Seattle; Eurotwit
Obviously, cultural groups as VASTLY different as extremist Muslims from the Middle East and modern Europeans cannot coexist within the same social landscape. This is the tragic harvest of the immigration fiasco. Behind this is the farce of cultural relativism and moral relativism, the twin pillars of liberal secular humanism.

Apparently, they never considered Islamo-fascist triumphalism as a possible scenario for a post-Christian future. Now they have to deal with it. Let's see how long it takes American liberals and the population controllers to figure this one out. Should prove interesting. And quite a riot.

28 posted on 05/04/2004 4:48:45 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: TheLion; CasearianDaoist
I don't like to bring it up, since on it's face it appears to be anecdotal and unsupported by facts, but I have several Euro friends who have been talking about moving to America 'just for a few years', so we might be seeing the onset of the European/American migration. My company employs lots of Euro expats, and these people just aren't going back though they intended to stay here for only a little while. I can't say that's the mindset of all of them because that would be the same as saying 'How did [Candidate X] win the election? Nobody I knew voted for him!'.

I also can't guarantee that they're conservative, but I have been present at a lot of their moaning and bitching about how it was back home and how they prefer it here. I have also heard a lot of bitching about the INS too, by the way.

It's amusing to see these Euros that have only been here for a few years act towards government. They're in favor of public services and have an exasperated 'what's the use in questioning authority?' mindset. Perhaps my view of them is the same as how the average Nevadan sees the typical Californian. If you've lived your whole life under heavy taxation, fear of law enforcement, and having to get a fee-based permit for everything that you do -- well, you can expect to be anything but 'conservative' in mindset.

For instance: In just about all of Europe, you must get a permit after attending some rudimentary schooling just to play golf on a public course. Now, I don't play golf, but I know that in American I can lay down some cash and get to breaking people's windows in the houses that line the golf courses if I want to. The contrasts go on and on. Swimming permits, fishing permits, bicycle permits, etc. etc. etc.

The only fellows I have that still seem to have a 'I'm going back someday' attitude are the Aussies.

29 posted on 05/04/2004 4:53:08 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid (Semper Fi)
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To: Eurotwit
Europe reminds me of so many of the WW II generation that are kicking along well and then one day something clicks off and a trip to the hospital is necessary. After around three weeks is becomes pretty obvious that life as it once was is nearing an end. Systems click on and off and then off. Finally they all fail and it's over.

The trip for Europe will not be too long in coming.


Europe will be overcome by those willing to fight for the land. They will come from the Indian subcontinent and Africa.
30 posted on 05/04/2004 4:54:53 PM PDT by bert (Don't Panic !)
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To: The KG9 Kid
Swimming permits, fishing permits, bicycle permits, etc. etc. etc. .......

Writing out permits. Jobs for the 1,000,000 additional new highschool graduates.

31 posted on 05/04/2004 5:00:00 PM PDT by bert (Don't Panic !)
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To: Savage Beast
Its the impulse of a child. New Boss Same as the Old Boss, unwitting will to power intellectuals .

A "gleeful, suicidal impulse" does permeate the American intelligentsia and fires the knee-jerk anti-American cynicism of American journalists.

Tear down thew wall of Postmodern Liberalism:


32 posted on 05/04/2004 5:04:01 PM PDT by Helms
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To: Helms
Yes, if "Liberals" were satisfied merely to commit suicide themselves, it would be of no importance. Unfortunately, they are determined to drag the rest of us into hell along with them.
33 posted on 05/04/2004 5:21:30 PM PDT by Savage Beast ("Whom will the terrorists vote for? Not George Bush--that's for sure!" ~Happy2BMe)
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To: Cicero
"I have said the same thing often. If you have to be overrun with illegal immigrants, I'll take Hispanics or Asians any day."

I have often thought the same thing....the only good news in this insanity!
34 posted on 05/04/2004 5:43:14 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: meenie
What in the name of common sense is wrong with neutrality? It seems to work for Sweden and Switzerland, they don't have to spend a fortune protecting themselves from terrorists... Terrorism is similar to the WPA ditches of the depression era, you spend billions making them and then billions covering them up.

First Osama blows up American Embassies in Africa. We stay neutral.

Then Osama blows up the USS Cole in the Mideast. We stay neutral.

Then Osama brings down the World Trade Center. You want to remain neutral? What does it take to get you to act?

35 posted on 05/04/2004 6:22:22 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: Porterville
the conquered do not "allow" anything.
the conquerors run roughshod over the dreams and relics of the vanquished.
this is the way of old-school conquest.

the mohammedians are old-school.

dwindling populations of inbred blue-blood "sophisticates" in their silken slippers shall shortly have their backsides brutalized by the hobnailed hooves of the hordes of the barbarian.
unless they wake TF up reeeaaalll damned soon and toughen up.

this, only this, is the way of things in this, the one and only, real and red-clawed, mean old world.
36 posted on 05/04/2004 6:50:29 PM PDT by King Prout (ChiComs salivate (Kerry: another Clinton) and leering say "I'll buy THAT for a dollar!")
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
I see you have a very short attention span. You have to go back to the underlying reason for Osama's bitterness to the West. Osama was our ally in the Russian-Afghanistan war. We furnished him supplies and arms. Something triggered a hatred against the US but also the European countries. What was that trigger?

Naturally you can't be neutral when you are attacked. You have an enemy to defeat. It would be helpful to know what caused an ally to become this hateful and viscious. Did our involvement in the Soviet war trigger it? Did we double cross him in some way? Neutrality might have been the way to go if this was the cause.

I'm just suggesting that sticking our nose and influence into a lot of unnecessary affairs can cause enemity. Good relations with others requires, if there is a misunderstanding, to try to analyze the cause of the problem. Is it due to interference or some other reason? Can the United States continue to be the world's policeman without making more enemies? If so, that is a factor to consider.

Did we make enemies in the Balkans due to our interference? Bombing the Serbs for 70 days after all our airmen they saved in WW II looked to me as though we were treating them pretty shabbily and making enemies of them. Actions have consequences and if not considered carefully can lead to rather serious problems with other people. I question whether we can continue to force feed democracy to people of the world without running into some serious repercussions against us. We are antagonizing a lot of people and they aren't all Muslims or terrorists.

37 posted on 05/04/2004 9:17:23 PM PDT by meenie
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To: meenie
I see you have a very short attention span. You have to go back to the underlying reason for Osama's bitterness to the West...

Silly you. Osama is not bitter at America. He is merely using America to further his acquisition of power. The more he prods America into action the more he can stir the mob minded Arab Muslim. He knows that, so he is going to continue his tactics of terror killing whether or not we claim neutrality. He wants to be the new Saladin leading the Muslim masses into creating a new Caliphate. Let him be and he may succeed. Only dopes think Osama is a creation of American policy. As practitioners of gangster ism, Mullahs, Ayatollahs, Imams, and Osama feel threatened by free market commercialism and American individualism. It's freedom of the masses they fear because they will lose control and be out of power.

Did we make enemies in the Balkans due to our interference?

We sure did, the Serbs and the Russians. This is Clinton's policy, not Bush's. The Republicans argued against this policy. They preferred supplying arms to unarmed warring parties and letting the distribution of power work its course, you know mutually assured destruction. The Democrats along with the Europeans abhorred any kind of Second Amendment philosophy of distributing power. They only want state control of weapons.

38 posted on 05/05/2004 4:55:58 AM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: meenie
I see you have a very short attention span. You have to go back to the underlying reason for Osama's bitterness to the West...

Silly you. Osama is not bitter at America. He is merely using America to further his acquisition of power. The more he prods America into action the more he can stir the mob minded Arab Muslim. He knows that, so he is going to continue his tactics of terror killing whether or not we claim neutrality. He wants to be the new Saladin leading the Muslim masses into creating a new Caliphate. Let him be and he may succeed. Only dopes think Osama is a creation of American policy. As practitioners of gangster ism, Mullahs, Ayatollahs, Imams, and Osama feel threatened by free market commercialism and American individualism. It's freedom of the masses they fear because they will lose control and be out of power.

Did we make enemies in the Balkans due to our interference?

We sure did, the Serbs and the Russians. This is Clinton's policy, not Bush's. The Republicans argued against this policy. They preferred supplying arms to unarmed warring parties and letting the distribution of power work its course, you know mutually assured destruction. The Democrats along with the Europeans abhorred any kind of Second Amendment philosophy of distributing power. They only want state control of weapons.

39 posted on 05/05/2004 5:01:43 AM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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