The rise of Europe's extreme right

OneWorld.net ^ | 10 May 2004 | Nick Ryan

[Clemenza]

Progress and the late Pim Fortyn should NOT be put in the same category as the bufoon Le Pen and those closet cases in the BNP. Of course, the author of this article is a lefty so he has blinders...

[B Knotts]

You are correct. The great irony of the angst over the European immigration/asylum situation is that it is precisely European culture which has failed to ensure its own survival.

The embrace of abortion, homosexuality and, yes, contraception has doomed Europe to oblivion, apparently.

Of course, the land will remain, but, short of some kind of truly miraculous revival of traditional values and religion, the people will disappear.

[Destro]

It is not about White People per say as much as it is about those that come adopting the motehr culture that is Hellenictic civilization (Western Civilization to the layman).

The Germanic tribes while white were not "Westerners" once either. But as soon as they came over into the Roman world they adopted what was obviously to them a superior and worthy civilization. Arabs will not do that. Remember Arabs pre Islam were themselves members of Hellenistic civilization - the lost city of Petra for example is an example of "Arabic" i.e. Semetic peoples who adopted our civilization.

[Destro]

It is not about White People per say as much as it is about those that come adopting the mother culture that is Hellenictic civilization (Western Civilization to the layman).

The Germanic tribes while white were not "Westerners" once either. But as soon as they came over into the Roman world they adopted what was obviously to them a superior and worthy civilization. I should have said MUSLIM Arabs will not do that. Remember Arabs pre Islam were themselves members of Hellenistic civilization - the lost city of Petra for example is an example of "Arabic" i.e. Semetic peoples who adopted our civilization.

[Clemenza]

Let's not forget that a large segment of the Jewish population adopted Hellenistic culture from the beginning, giving them a considerable advantage to other groups in that part of the world. The adoption of hellenistic culture by the Jews was one of the great turning points in the history of the Jewish people.

[The Raven]

When I think of the extreme right - I think of Jefferson, Madison, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman (individual freedom)

The extreme left is Stalin, Hitler, etc (statists)

[Clemenza]

In many ways, Fascism is communism reflected in the mirror...

Remember that as of 1944, there were more nationalized businesses in Italy than anywhere outside of the USSR.

[Clemenza]

Most 2nd Generation Mexican-Americans I meet seem to be adopting to the Wal-Mart/reality show/Applebee's aspect of American culture quite well. The same cannot be said of the Arabs in Europe, who haven't adopted to ANY aspect of European culture, aside from the "housing estates" in the suburbs of Paris and Brussels.

[An.American.Expatriate]

When I think of the extreme right - I think of Jefferson, Madison, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman (individual freedom)

And that is correct from an American perspective!!

Europeans don't understand the concept of individual freedom because they have NEVER had it!! The State is the source of rights in Europe. A government of the people, by the people and for the people is totally alien to them.

[Destro]

you know - I never thought about that in that way but it is true - the Jews were able to be a succesful minority (unlike say the Gypsies) in Europe because the Jews of the diaspora maintained the traditions of Hellenistic civilization. I never really bought the line that the Jews did well because they were allowed to charge usery fees. That does not explain why when an Arab in Spain or a Frank in Gaul wanted to consult the wisdom of the Western Fathers they went to Jewish scholars. Until actual Greek scholars arrived as refugees from the fall of Constantinople the Jews were one of the few areas outside of the Church that you could access classical literature.

[CasearianDaoist]

And a dumb one at that.

[An.American.Expatriate]

LOL

[CasearianDaoist]

What is curious here is the understanding of American conservatism. Is this wide-speard in the EU> I had not thought so. I tend to feel that the Right in the USA tends to get lumped with the historical "Euprpean Right" which of course is a bitter slander on us. Am I wrong about this?

[Destro]

American culture is more - for lack of better words - social darwanist. This forces adoption - socialisim tends to produce stagnation because their is no pressure to change. Also Hispanics are part of Western civilization 0 no matter what lefties in colleges may say so American cluture - i.e. the WASP version of Hellenistic civilization is not so far removed from the Latin version of Hellenistic civilization.

Neocons claim we can do this to the Muslims.

[An.American.Expatriate]

No you are quite correct!!

[kabar]

But perhaps perceptions are shifting. Mainstream politics and public opinion are affected by fears – some would say hysteria – over immigration, asylum, terrorism and Islam. These phrases are often used interchangeably on the street and in casual conversation.

The rise of the right will continue as the influx of foreigners increases along with the open borders fostered by the EU and the Mastricht Treaty. The countries of Europe are very nationalistic when it comes to preserving their own cultures. Over the centuries it was a matter of survival, which explains why there are so many countries in a relatively small land area.

The declining native populations throughout Europe, especially in Italy, Hungary, Germany, and others will require more foreigners to maintain their economies. Europe is not used to mass immigration and the assimilation of foreigners. Countries like Germany have laws that make it very difficult for a foreigner to become a citizen. There are over 300,000 Turks (guest workers who have been there for generations) in Berlin alone who are not citizens.

What we are witnessing in Europe is the beginning of a growing reaction of the native populations that see their cultures being eroded and a future where they may be the minority in their own countries. Big problems lie ahead for a continent that is declining and slowly dying. Their political leaders have sold them out in the name of a United Europe.

[Flying Circus]

You must have missed the part about the little war that President Thomas Jefferson had with the Barbary pirates. America has been at odds with Muslims from the beginning... it was only in the past century we've had much contact with them.

European history is replete with instances of Islamic aggression. In their "open mindedness" Europe's socialist regimes have forgotten their history which is written in the blood of Christians slaughtered at Muslim hands. Spain is most egregiously guilty of this.

[Ohioan]

This writer is lumping together a few odd balls--for scare effect--with perfectly legitimate conservative movements. The motives of anyone who uses these techniques are, to say the least, highly suspect. He obviously does not want a real debate on the ethnic future of any land, but would rather scare off any reasoned inquiry by resurrecting old stereotypes.

As I wrote following the smear tactics used agains Le Pen and others, two years ago:

The Big Truth.

For more on where the real Nazis--not fools in costume--actually stood in the political spectrum, see The Lies Of Socialism.

The milk toast "Conservatives," who let themselves be intimidated into not defending the continuity of their respective nations, deserve the future they are acquiesing in. But the rest of us do not deserve to be dragged there with them. It is long past time that we stopped listening to those who are afraid to address the real issues.

William Flax

[Eurotwit]

Well, for what it's worth, I think you are wrong. If what you mean by historical "European right" involves Hitler et al.

People are aware of what American conservatism is about, they just disdain it.

It's often viewed as one of two elements:

1- Christian fundamentalist - viewed as uneducated, backwards and silly
2- Greedy capitalist with no consern for others.

Off course these are charicatures. And the conservative movement is large and includes internationalist neo-cons (often secular), isolationists, libertarians, Social conservatives who see the governments role as to legislate away all vices etc etc.

If you define American conservatism this way (which is what I support)

- Strong belief in personal liberty AND responsibilty
- Strong belief in conservative social values as relating to marriage, the family etc
- Belief in justice - domestic against crime, and internationally against terrorist etc.

Then most Europeans are aware of what it is, they just think it is ignorant and stupid. Hence the demonisation of political parties such as the People's party in Denmark (There are even some Swedish freepers who seem to share such views), and the Progress party in Norway who stand for these values.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[An.American.Expatriate]

Right / Left / Middle are all artificial designations.

What the conservative movement in America has always been about is that the rights of the individual are supreme and that a government derives it's right to govern from the will of the people.

I do not see many European parties advocating this. The ones considered on the right (CDU in Germany for example) are generally very "social" [to use the European euphamism], although less so than thier "left wing" counterparts.

Hitler was a part of the extreme right - but had nothing to do directly with the mainstream right. Just as Stalin was from the extreme left.

The problem with the comparison is that we are discussing the far left and right of the same ideology.

American Conservatism is an entirely different ideology. There is no place for it on the European left to right scale.