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Evidence Suggests Kerry's Silver Star Was Not Earned (UPDATED and more damning)
May 11, 2004 | The Bandit

Posted on 05/11/2004 3:08:57 PM PDT by The Bandit

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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
That is an interesting picture on the right.
He's got ribbons. Was that a before or after "the tossing" day.
41 posted on 05/11/2004 9:10:57 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: Fedora
I do love your pings. Thank you.
42 posted on 05/11/2004 9:11:38 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: hobson; kellynla
Ping--was hoping you two might lend your insight into Kerry's military records to this thread. Please see my Posts #33 and #36 on Zumwalt; I'm interested to hear your take on his politics and relationship to Kerry. Hobson, I notice your post mentioned Zumwalt on Reference: Kerry's Medal and Wound Records:

1. "For example, the fabled and distinguished chief of naval operations (CNO), Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, told me -- 30 years ago when he was still CNO -- that during his own command of US naval forces in Vietnam, just prior to his anointment as CNO, young Kerry had created great problems for him and the other top brass, by killing so many non-combatant civilians and going after other non-military targets. "We had virtually to straight-jacket him to keep him under control," the admiral said." "Can John Kerry hold on to his lead?", W. Scott Thompson, 2/11/2004

[SNIP]

3. Admiral Elmo Zumwalt Jr photos (I believe the person pinning the medals on Kerry is Zumwalt.)

43 posted on 05/11/2004 9:25:14 PM PDT by Fedora (I'm Fedora, and I approved this message before I disapproved it)
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To: calcowgirl
Ping on links in #43.
44 posted on 05/11/2004 9:26:52 PM PDT by Fedora (I'm Fedora, and I approved this message before I disapproved it)
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To: philman_36
You're most welcome, as always!
45 posted on 05/11/2004 9:29:12 PM PDT by Fedora (I'm Fedora, and I approved this message before I disapproved it)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Please see my #43; I'd also be interested in your take on the question I pose there.
46 posted on 05/11/2004 9:30:47 PM PDT by Fedora (I'm Fedora, and I approved this message before I disapproved it)
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To: Fedora
I'll have to get back to you tomorrow on this.
'bout ready for taps here. LOL
47 posted on 05/11/2004 9:32:24 PM PDT by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1/5 1st Mar Div. Nam 69&70 Semper Fi http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com)
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To: kellynla
I'll have to get back to you tomorrow on this.

'bout ready for taps here. LOL

I should be heading in that direction here soon, too, LOL! Looking forward to your comments.

48 posted on 05/11/2004 9:42:16 PM PDT by Fedora (I'm Fedora, and I approved this message before I disapproved it)
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To: Fedora
I'll study this and let you know.
Thanks!
49 posted on 05/12/2004 4:11:11 AM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Support Our Troops!)
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To: hummingbird
DO agree. I have no medals. Served 8 yrs as an Army Medic-
69-77. Spent only 68 days in the Republic of-they were still
trying to prosecute a war -and did not want my medical profile (seizure disorder,and Manic depressive) I went where
I was ordered to go--and did my best--as a Medic--But unlike
Kerry-- I have NOT claimed what I have not earned in combat.
Unlike Kerry I did not betray my peers-Nor did I give aid and comfort to the enemy.Gen.Giap ,I hear used to show our
Americans held POW photographs of the Vietnam veterans against the war--and Kerry-claiming even our own did not support that war.
50 posted on 05/12/2004 5:40:46 AM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: Fedora; Goreknowshowtocheat
Fedora, I have to agree with what "Goreknoowshowtocheat" said below:
Clearly, Kerry wrote himself up for the award since there were no witnesses and no supervision of Kerry. While it may not make a difference in the campaign, I like to know the truth anyway. He violated SOP by beaching the swift and endangered the boat and his crew. I can only think he saw an opportunity to embellish his career for the purposes of a later campaign for office. He must have known the VC was wounded enough to make the effort and not get killed. I have a feeling the area was swept pretty clean or you would not get Kerry jumping into a tree-lined shore line in search of a medal.
Kerry is a man totally immersed in his own self promotion. Too bad it's taken over thirty years for the media and the world to catch up with his lies. I can only hope and pray that the American electorate will not make the same mistake again by electing another traitor POUS.
Semper Fi, Kelly
51 posted on 05/12/2004 6:50:09 AM PDT by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1/5 1st Mar Div. Nam 69&70 Semper Fi http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com)
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To: Fedora
George Elliott has said that the reason he supported Kerry was that he was being accused of committing a war crime when he killed the guy with the rocket launcher. Elliott felt strongly that was not the case, and said so. Now he's on record with the other Swift boat vets saying that Kerry is not fit to be commander-in-chief. Fox News made a big deal about Elliot's previous support of Kerry, but I don't see any conflict between the two positions.
52 posted on 05/12/2004 6:58:43 AM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: calcowgirl; kellynla; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; Interesting Times; philman_36; backhoe; Liz
Thanks for the comments! FWIW, some additional background information on Zumwalt I've collected since my last post:

--Zumwalt's opposition to US involvement in Vietnam was first expressed in 1962: "In 1962 he wrote a report urging the United States not to get involved militarily in Vietnam, but by 1968 he was commander of the Naval forces there, and committed to winning the war. A year later, his son Elmo volunteered for riverboat duty there." (IN MEMORIAM: ELMO ZUMWALT)

--Zumwalt's views on Vietnam were influenced by then-JFK/LBJ advisor Paul Nitze: "By 1964 Zumwalt was senior aide to Secretary of the Navy Paul Nitze and shared his chief's skepticism about the growing U.S. commitment to the war in Southeast Asia. Both viewed the Soviet armaments buildup as more challenging to America's vital interests." (Dewey's first Commanding Officer) Nitze was at one time the boss of William Bundy, uncle of Kerry's college roommate: "Ironically, Harvey [Bundy] had died just as his son Bill was being nominated to be assistant secretary [of Defense], a title Harvey had once held. Bill's boss, Paul Nitze, left that autumn [1963] to become secretary of the navy, and McNamara had immediately recommended Bill's promotion." (Kai Bird, The Color of Truth: McGeorge Bundy and William Bundy: Brothers in Arms: A Biography, 265) Questions about Nitze as a security risk had been raised by Joseph McCarthy and other conservatives, prompted by Nitze's close association with the State Department's Dean Acheson, and in the wake of these suspicions John Foster Dulles had blocked Nitze's advancement in the State Department: "Dulles summoned Paul Nitze to his office the afternoon of Eisenhower's inauguration. He was cordial. . .He was sorry to say, however, that he could not afford to keep on Dean Acheson's chief planner. . .As a consolation prize, Nitze was allowed to work for the new Secretary of Defense, Charles Wilson. . .But then McCarthy moved in, charging that Nitze was a 'Wall Street operator', while Senator Knowland claimed that Nitze was one of 'Acheson's architects of disaster'." (Walter Isaacson and Evan Thomas, The Wise Men: Six Friends and the World They Made, 570). During the Pentagon Papers investigation John Ehrlichman suspected Nitze (for whom Daniel Ellsberg had once worked) of being one of Ellsberg's coconspirators: "'He's a co-conspirator with Gelb and Halperin,' Ehrlichman reported to Nixon on September 10. 'Paul Nitze is?' Nixon responded increduously. 'I'm quite sure. Quite sure that he's the guy,' replied Ehrlichman. . ." (Tom Wells, Wild Man: The Life and Times of Daniel Ellsberg, 461-462) Ellsberg's biographer Wells goes on to speculate that Ehrlichman may have had Nitze confused with Paul Warnke here, but it's clear to me Ehrlichman meant Nitze--cf. David Rudenstine, "The Day the Presses Stopped: A History of the Pentagon Papers Case": "Gelb declared the project completed on January 15, 1969, only five days before Richard Nixon took the presidential oath. . .Shortly thereafter, and after consulting with McNamara, Gelb made a list for the distribution of the report. Although it is not known for certain, Melvin R. Laird, Nixon's defense secretary, likely approved the list. Only fifteen copies of the report were made, and, of that, five copies were placed in Laird's safe at the Pentagon. Of the ten distributed copies, only one went to an official of the Nixon administration--Henry Kissinger, Nixon's national security adviser. The remaining nine went to the Kennedy and Johnson libraries and seven former Johnson officials. McNamara, Clifford, and Paul H. Nitze, former deputy secretary of defense, each received one. A copy was placed with the private papers of Katzenbach and former Assistant Secretary of State William P. Bundy, both of whose papers were stored at the State Department. Warnke claimed a copy, and Gelb and Halperin jointly claimed the last copy. Not surprisingly, no copy of the report was sent to Walt Rostow, Dean:Rusk, or Johnson himself. No announcement describing the study was circulated within the government."

--Zumwalt was involved in the Moorer-Radford spy ring I mentioned: "The White House Tapes name Admiral Zumwalt (the Chief of Naval Operations) as one of the recipients of the stolen documents." (Len Colodny and Tom Shachtman, "The Moorer – Radford Spy Ring 'Seven Days In December'")

--Finally, much later in Zumwalt's career, he became an activist in the Agent Orange controversy: "It would take the intervention of the former commander of the US Navy in Vietnam, Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, for the government finally to admit that it had been aware of the potential dangers of the chemicals used in Vietnam from the start of Ranch Hand. The admiral's involvement stemmed from a deathbed pledge to his son, a patrol boat captain who contracted two forms of cancer that he believed had been caused by his exposure to Agent Orange. Every day during the war, Captain Elmo Zumwalt Jr had swum in a river from which he had also eaten fish, in an area that was regularly sprayed with the herbicide. Two years after his son's death in 1988, Zumwalt used his leverage within the military establishment to compile a classified report, which he presented to the secretary of the department of veterans' affairs and which contained data linking Agent Orange to 28 life-threatening conditions, including bone cancer, skin cancer, brain cancer - in fact, almost every cancer known to man - in addition to chronic skin disorders, birth defects, gastrointestinal diseases and neurological defects." Cathy Scott-Clark and Adrian Levy, "A Chemical Weapon Used By the US in the Vietnam War is Still Damaging New Generations"

I note that none of this proves anything about Zumwalt's relationship with Kerry, but I post it as background to be taken into consideration. It does at least establish that Paul Nitze was a link between the social circles of Zumwalt and those of Kerry's roommate's uncle William Bundy--in other words, if Kerry needed some strings pulled, he at least knew the right people.

53 posted on 05/12/2004 9:22:27 AM PDT by Fedora (I'm Fedora, and I approved this message before I disapproved it)
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To: Fedora
Thanks for the additional research.
I'm still going through the earlier posts.
I'm bookmarking this thread.
54 posted on 05/12/2004 9:30:14 AM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Hanoi Kerry is a traitor)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

btt


55 posted on 08/16/2004 6:52:28 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: The Bandit

bttt


56 posted on 10/22/2004 5:01:14 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: 68skylark
Whatever happened in the 1960's (good and bad) should probably be burried, IMHO.

I don't agree that it should be buried, but I do think the Swifties have basically done their damage. They were the opening salvo to soften Kerry up and they did that perfectly.

57 posted on 10/22/2004 5:07:06 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: 68skylark
The people who would care if Kerry behaved gallantly in Nam mostly are not voting for him anyway, and the people who are voting for him, mostly don't care about Nam

This has been a wild goose chase, during which Kerry's decades of extreme-Left-wing activities in the US have not gotten the attention they deserved

58 posted on 10/22/2004 5:13:54 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (What Is Best In Life? To crush your enemies and see them driven before you)
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