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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

"That's because the muslims are a bunch of chickenhearted bastards. Committing atrocities against civilians and torturing POWs is their bread and butter. Anything requiring courage and honor is not for them."

Well not quite. It is easy to ridicule your enemy in such tones, but in reality some of the Arabs involved in the conflict were not cowards by any means. There is countless testimony in many of the documentaries since the end of major combat of fierce resistance and hard fought battles.

The interviews of Apache pilots at the 'Ambush in Najaf' that were shown on TV were quite humbling. The Iraqi's pulled a fast one with their tactics on that night and resulted in a substantial portion of those helos retreating with battle-damage. The Iraqi's had operatives behind the US lines resulting in the helo assault going astray the minute they set-off. This was all detailed in the documentary shown this year with interviews from both sides - including the two Apache crew taken prisoners of war.:

http://www.afa.org/magazine/oct2003/1003najaf.pdf

Having read many battle testimonies since these are just a few of the many snippets that exist on line in regards to how some of the Coalition Forces felt about resistance in Iraq:

"Backed by infantry, Desert Rat tanks then drove further toward the outskirts of Basra's old city and were in sight of the Shatt Al-Arab waterway.

At least 300 Fedayeen were killed in operations Saturday and Sunday, according to British officers, some of whom displayed a grudging respect for their adversaries and their readiness to fight to the death.

Colonel Hugh Blackman, of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, spoke of how the Fedayeen, clad in black suits and red head-dresses, had been brave yet wickedly wily in their defence of Basra.

"They have fought hard and have been cunning and tenacious in the face of superior fire-power.

.........

U.S. troops estimated they killed hundreds of Iraqi soldiers and irregulars who mounted the counterattack by racing over several bridges across the Tigris from the eastern part of the city in approximately 50 buses, trucks, and BMP armored personnel carriers. U.S. air strikes, called in to support the 3rd Infantry Division on the western side, destroyed a number of the vehicles, but most made it across the river before being beaten back by heavily armored M1 Abrams tanks and M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, said Col. David Perkins, the commander of the division's 2nd Brigade.

Despite the display of resistance - U.S. officers saluted the Iraqi fighters for their determination -

.........

Maj. Gen. David H. Petraeus

We attacked into south Al Hillah, where we encountered a dug-in Republican Guard battalion with a tank company, with artillery and with air defense, and it fought very, very effectively. We had a very heavy fight there, lost our first soldier.

.......

Captain Carter -- A Company, 3rd Battalion, 7th Infantry Regiment

Until now, the troops of A Company, nicknamed Attack, had only seen soldiers and Republican Guard fighters, not suicide attackers. The combat had also never been so close.

"They are hard fighters, but not smart fighters," Carter said.

........

LT. COL. TERR FERREL, COMMANDER, 3-7TH CAVALRY:

RODGERS: Tell us about the Iraqi resistance that you are seeing. Are they fighting well, are they fighting sporadically?

FERREL: What you see right now and what we are observing within our area of operations is, the forces that we encounter, approximately 50 percent or so are fighting very well, very aggressive, and very well organized. At the same time, you will discover there are systems that are unmanned and just parked, and there's no fight there.

The commander of the 101st Airborne Division's Aviation Brigade, Colonel Greg Gass, told AFP Apache helicopters from his 3rd Battalion destroyed a "battalion's worth" of Iraqi soldiers and S-60 anti-aircraft 57mm weapons, without going into specific numbers.

Gass described the combat, in which the Apaches were supporting the division's infantry soldiers, as the heaviest his forces had been involved in since the start of the war on March 20.

"They (the Iraqis) fought pretty hard from first light (into the afternoon)," Gass said, adding eight Apaches sustained various levels of damage.

"Eight aircraft were hit anywhere from just a hole in the rotor to significant tail damage," Gass said.

``They were just mowed down. But a few minutes later the survivors would get up and charge again. They are fanatics,'' said Lt. Col. Al Orr of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.

......

If you conducted a poll of US citizens many of them would vote that the Iraqi's, and other Arab fighters, simply threw down their weapons and went home. In reality there was some very hard fought battles and fierce resistance shown by certain Arab fighters. Simply reverse the situation and think about how you would fight if your country was being invaded.



148 posted on 05/20/2004 5:49:26 AM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: Tommyjo
The Arabs military problems have never been a lack of bravery - it's far more fundamental than that.

Lack of initiative, lack of trust in superiors, lack of willingness to engage in the unglamorous tasks of training and maintenance, lack of communication, lack of pretty much everything that it takes to get a group to fight as a cohesive whole.

152 posted on 05/20/2004 6:26:26 AM PDT by jdege
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To: Tommyjo

In every instance you cite, what we see is bravery or fanaticism, not backed with skill. Thus, the overwhelmingly lopsided casualties. Part of me thinks the Coalition troops quoted give some props to the Iraqis out of Western guilt or appreciation of the underdog. Sure, maybe if our troops didn't have body armor, air support, and the other superior technology, the Iraqis would give a better showing, but those Scots didn't have that and still wiped the floor with them.


175 posted on 05/20/2004 8:29:47 AM PDT by Liberty Tree Surgeon (Buy American, the Nation you save may be your own)
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