Some Calif. state senators protest pastor calling absent working moms 'sinful'

Sac Bee ^ | May 24, 04 | Sac Bee

[churchillbuff]

Several state senators donned kitchen aprons and scarlet "M"s Monday to protest remarks by a pastor who said female lawmakers with small children at home were "sinful." Sen. Debra Bowen said the domestic revolt was to point out that the lawmakers with children "can do as good a job being parents as they can being legislators."

Bowen and other lawmakers said they were furious to learn that the Rev. Ralph Drollinger, who leads a Bible study class for lawmakers, wrote in a Bible lesson that women lawmakers with young children at home are sinners. "It is one thing for a mother to work out of her home while her children are in school," wrote Drollinger. "It is quite another matter to have children in the home and live away in Sacramento for four days a week. Whereas the former could be in keeping with the spirit of Proverbs 31, the latter is sinful."

[tbird5]

Got to agree

[cyborg]

I agree... four days out of seven away from one's children. Who cares about political power? I want to be mommy and put my babies to bed.

[JusPasenThru]

I don't disagree but I suspect he didn't sway many people to his point of view.

[Klaus D. Deore]

"It is one thing for a mother to work out of her home while her children are in school," wrote Drollinger. "It is quite another matter to have children in the home and live away in Sacramento for four days a week. Whereas the former could be in keeping with the spirit of Proverbs 31, the latter is sinful."

Sounds like common sense to me.

But what really causes me to scratch my head is why these working mothers of youngsters don't revel in their awesome power to affect the future.

[GODFEARINGWOMAN]

"can do as good a job being parents as they can being legislators."

Let me just say that while these women are being legislators someone else is raising their children. So they must not be good legislators because they are slacking in the parent department This may sound harsh but I have been a nanny for seven years and I know that the ones who suffer the most from a working mother are their children.
Do I think it is sinful........not sure.

[FoxInSocks]

I don't think the Senate floor is an appropriate stage for protest. Don't all these democrats think it's a violation of church and state to do so?

As for the merits of their protest . . . well, there are a lot of two-income households. If they disagree with the reverend, don't listen to him.

[DeweyCA]

Is this the same Ralph Drollinger who was a Center for the UCLA Bruins basketball team back under Coach Wooden, and then turned down an NBA offer from the Boston Celtics to pursue ministry?

[hocndoc]

I'd have to ask: where's the child's daddy?

Children have 2 parents, after all.

[thoughtomator]

Making one's children suffer for one's own ambition... yes that's sinful. Were it absolute necessity, no, but that is clearly not applicable to any of the cases in question.

[mrsmith]

This is blatantly against the First Amendment to use their government positions to attack the teachings in a preacher's bible studies class.

Lawmakers should not deliberately intimidate anyone's profession of beliefs.

[buffyt]

If you are truly BLESSED like me and your husband works and you are able to stay home with the kids when they are little that is GREAT! If you are a single mom and you HAVE to work to feed your little angels..... well................

[formercalifornian]

Why, didn't you know? Anyone with 12 credits of early childhood education is better trained to bring up children than birth parents!

[Redbob]

"...the lawmakers with children "can do as good a job being parents as they can being legislators."

Oh, there's no question about that...

[rocky88]

That's ok with me because these "mothers" (and I use the term very very lightly) are actually raising future conservative republicans and just don't know it yet.

[Imal]

"It is quite another matter to have children in the home and live away in Sacramento for four days a week. Whereas the former could be in keeping with the spirit of Proverbs 31, the latter is sinful."

I don't see how Rev. Drollinger gets all this from Proverbs 31. In fact, if you actually read it, it seems to contradict what he is saying.

For example:

Proverbs 31:14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.

Proverbs 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

It starts off as words of a prophecy told to King Lemuel by his mother concerning, among other things, strong drink, and then launches into a description of a virtuous woman. None of the virtues listed is in conflict with being a virtuous woman, but moreover, there is no commandment that any woman must have all these virtues anyway.

Looks more to me like Rev. Drollinger is taking it upon himself to assume the mantle of God, who alone determines what sin is (Deuteronomy 5:7), not some self-appointed accuser.

His citation does not support his charges. He might be better served attending to his own sins, rather than inventing false sins to accuse others of committing.

[Imal]

*None of the virtues listed is in conflict with being a lawmaker,

[familyop]

I agree with the Reverend.

[ConservativeMan55]

bump!

[familyop]

Captain Cook, Shaggy.

[Imal]

Is that huge string of <br>'s really necessary?

[ConservativeMan55]

Sorry. Some clown named Major Risktaker pinged me to a HUGE ass graphic. Its screwing up the "my comments" page. So I am bumping long so that it will get knocked off the page.

[ConservativeMan55]

I've almost got it!

[shaggy eel]

,,, everything these days seems to rest on what's best for the children. Custody cases are at the forefront of that maxim. Four days a week out of the home is putting a dollar each way on life... "I'll have kids, but I'll outsource their care." That's a made in China ethic, tried and true.

[churchillbuff]

Is this the same Ralph Drollinger who was a Center for the UCLA Bruins basketball

I believe so

[Imal]

Ouch! There must be a better way. Here, I'll give you a little extra whitespace to help...













:)

[ellery]

Absent fathers should receive the same condemnation.

[ConservativeMan55]

Thanks!

[familyop]

Yes, exactly, and child care by way of more government taxation will be too expensive for all besides being a means of government rearing children instead of parents doing so.

[shaggy eel]

government rearing

,,, the hammer hits the nail on the head.

[familyop]

Driving the Divorce Rate: Who’s Teaching the Women?

It contains cites to references.

[familyop]

",, the hammer hits the nail on the head."

LOL! ...no pun intended.

[shaggy eel]

,,, post #31 - good work!

[seastay]

I am a mom who has to work because I am a widow, and although I do believe my situation is a result of sin, I don't think that it is a sin to try to provide the best for my child by earning a living.

Each working moms case would be different but I suspect a lot of these woman legislators could perhaps not be working for God or their children but for themselves, which then would be a sin. But who are we to judge?

Funny however, if the Reverend would have just said he felt these woman were trying to climb the ladder of success for personal gain, he would have been praised, but in essence that is what he was meaning by saying these woman were sinning since they seemed more self motivating for personal gain than the success of their children.

A sad commentary about the whole issue is that using the word "sin" seems to be a derogatory word that cannot ever be spoken in public, even if it is meant for constrictive criticism. The word "sin" is so inflammatory to the self righteous they want to stamp out any utter of it so they themselves do not have to face their own judgment, explaining the odd antics and reaction!

[Old Professer]

Thank god there is an endless supply of sh*t.

[Dianna]

Each working moms case would be different but I suspect a lot of these woman legislators could perhaps not be working for God or their children but for themselves, which then would be a sin. But who are we to judge?

I'm not sure that the Reverend is talking about ALL women who work. It sounds like he is speaking specifically about the female legislators, ** who are living away from the family home for 4 days per week**.

I cannot disagree.

[familyop]

Widows are most often very different from divorcees (that is, those who do the divorcing) at how they teach their children.

Widows do what they must. It is a sin to take from or to refuse to help widows and their children.

[L.N. Smithee]

Several state senators donned kitchen aprons and scarlet "M"s Monday to protest remarks by a pastor who said female lawmakers with small children at home were "sinful." Sen. Debra Bowen said the domestic revolt was to point out that the lawmakers with children "can do as good a job being parents as they can being legislators."

Wow, what a creative protest. Well, that convinces me that they're good mothers. </sarcasm>

[L.N. Smithee]

About a dozen senators _ both male and female _ joined the protest, including the usually bombastic Senate President Pro Tem John Burton, who presided over the Senate while adorned in a pink flowered apron.

What does the reporter mean "usually bombastic"? I have met the scowling, abrasive, profane Mr. Burton, and he would be bombastic wearing a corset and a hoopskirt. The only difference between him and Congressman Pete Stark (he of the insulting voice mail message to a constituent) is that Burton usually is smart enough not to cuss at people in front of a microphone or a camera.

Note that there were no Republican lawmakers who were spoken of as participating in this nonsense. Not that they were necessarily in agreement, but that they didn't lower themselves to stunts like this.

This is what being a Californian is about, all you folks from the other 49. Putting up with this crapola -- and worse -- from our "leaders."

[dsc]

"can do as good a job being parents as they can being legislators."

Yup. Crappy, evil legislators; crappy, evil moms.

[kcvl]

Debra Bowen

Adorned in aprons, state Senators Martha Escutia, D-Los Angeles, from left, Debra Ortiz, D-Sacramento, and Sheile Kuhl, D-Santa Monica, listen as State Sen. Jack Scott, D- Altadena, right, addresses the Senate at the Capitol in Sacramento, Calif., Monday, May 24, 2004. The aprons were worn by Legislators who objected to the remarks of Rev. Ralph Drollinger, who leads a Bible study class for lawmakers, who wrote in a Bible lesson that women legislators with young children were "sinful" for leaving them to work in Sacramento. Scott was among several male Senators who wore aprons to show support. (AP Photo/Rich Pedroncelli)

They look perfect for the job, more so than a "law maker".

[kcvl]

Another bill, introduced by Sen. Debra Bowen (D-Redondo Beach), would ban cell phone use by drivers younger than 18 years old.

It seems she is good at trying to "raise" other people's children but I bet hers do what they damn well please.

[dsc]

Nothing needs reforming as much as other people's habits.

Mark Twain

[dsc]

"Debra Bowen"

Criminetly, that gave me a start. Is that pic photoshopped?

[kcvl]

Oh yes, she is also too busy legislating how you build your homes and businesses to "raise" her own children.

Tue, May. 18, 2004
Senate OKs solar-home requirement

SACRAMENTO - Some new California homes would have to be equipped with solar energy systems under a bill approved Monday by the state Senate after lawmakers debated whether tapping the sun to create electricity was cost-effective.

Sen. Debra Bowen, D-Redondo Beach, said some commercial buildings should be candidates for the same type of solar energy mandate.

Why would anyone including businesses want to be TOLD how to build on YOUR OWN PROPERTY?!

[kcvl]

NO!

[L.N. Smithee]

What's really sad about this is that it apparently wasn't a spontaneous demonstration; the Drollinger statement was made in April. APRIL!

Adorned in aprons, state Senators Martha Escutia, D-Los Angeles, from left, Debra Ortiz, D-Sacramento, and Sheile Kuhl [sic], D-Santa Monica, listen as State Sen. Jack Scott, D- Altadena, right, addresses the Senate at the Capitol in Sacramento, Calif., Monday, May 24, 2004.

Heyyyy, wait a minute...Sheila Kuehl is a LESBIAN! And she's one of those old-school lezzies, too -- the ones who accepted a long time ago that they were never going to be mothers, and didn't have to sanitize their turkey basters every Thanksgiving!

[kcvl]

Busted!

[mvpel]

Judging by the bills they're pushing, four days a week in Sacramento is three too many.

[blackie]

In the upper right corner of "My Comments" Page you have two choices: "Brief|Full" select "Brief" and graphics will not be shown on "My Comments" Page.