Posted on 05/24/2004 9:17:25 PM PDT by churchillbuff
MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) -- As president of the Christian Coalition of Alabama, John Giles is no stranger to a pew. Yet he remembers well the time he got lost in a Roman Catholic church.
"I couldn't even follow the order of service, it was so foreign to me," Giles says of that day some six years ago.
Since then he's found his way and a new home in the Roman Catholic church — a home that might seem foreign to the overwhelmingly Protestant church population of Alabama.
"I have to admit to you that the whole time that I was in that church service, I was reduced to tears, and I couldn't explain it," Giles said Monday in an interview with The Associated Press.
"In fact," he jokes, "you would have thought I had been spending the whole weekend down at the House of the Rising Sun down in New Orleans, that I had all this sin in my life that I had to get out."
In any case, Giles and his wife, Deborah, were received into the Catholic Church at St. Peter's Parish in Montgomery on Easter Sunday.
Such a decision normally wouldn't be a matter of public interest, but Giles says he anticipated the questions that have followed his conversion from the Protestant faith.
"It would be nice if my private, Christian walk could be my private, Christian walk, but it's very difficult in my job for that to be the case," he says.
Giles says he knew the questions would come because as a Protestant he, too, had mistaken notions about Catholics. And the most frequent question he gets from his friends is "why?"
With that in mind he wrote an eight-page letter explaining his reasoning. In it, he explains that he had attended a variety of Protestant churches in Montgomery, including Christian Life Church and River of Life Church.
But once he visited the Roman Catholic church, he found himself in awe of its history and ritual, particularly its use of sight, sound, smell, taste and touch in each service.
Trips to Israel and Rome spurred his curiosity. And the deeper he looked into the faith — which is the largest in the United States but lags behind Southern Baptists and other Protestant denominations in the South — the more he says he realized that many of his beliefs about Catholicism had been wrong.
"There is a perception among Protestants — you kind of have this perception that if you're Episcopal or Catholic, you're not even saved, you're not born again, which is totally a myth," he says.
He recalls one example from the New Year's holiday, which he spent in Florida with the chairman of his board. He had told the chairman of his and Deborah's plans to convert, and he says they were well-received.
"But we went to some other friends of theirs' house on one of the nights we were down there," Giles remembers. "And so we're sitting around visiting and this one lady was teaching a Sunday School class on cults. And she began to name off all the cults that she'd be teaching and named Catholic in there."
He acknowledges that the reaction by his Protestant constituents may be mixed.
"We didn't make this change to win friends and influence people and do it from a popularity standpoint, because we knew that in the state of Alabama, this is probably not a popular position to take in the Christian movement," he says. "So it remains to be seen."
But he hopes they, like he and his wife, will keep an open mind.
"We hope that we could have a small contribution to building bridges where there weren't bridges," he says. "Because Christians are Christians. There's no such thing as Christians and Catholics."
Does the Christian Coalition include Catholic parishes? Are any Catholic bishops involved?
Just a couple of things to know about Catholics. They don't sing well and after Mass, everyone heads out. They have been trying to get us to be collegial for year with only partial success.
there are plenty of online resources on the other end of google...I think you'll find it's not what you have been told, and the Catholics have alot more good answers than Protestants give them credit for.
As one who grew up a Catholic in a small town in Alabama, I find this story interesting but not particularly surprising.
There were several churches in our town - needless to say - and ours was not viewed any differently than the others, as far as I could tell.
Well, except when Kennedy ran for President...
If your are one who searches for truth then Catholicism is the best choice.
As an ex-catholic, Latin-mass saying altar boy - this is good! Too many Baptists and others do not understand the history of their own faith.
I left the Catholic (universal) church because I could not match church teaching with my own reading of the bible at 16 - a la Luther (Bondage of the Will for all those who have read Erasmus and Luther - the greatest, IMHO of both mindsets).
And the more that Catholics understand the Bible, the greater the power of the silent majority. Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Deo Gloria.
As a non-denominational christian who's parents are catholic and I have been to numerous Catholic Services I could never imagine becoming catholic. I have been to Mennonite Services and Evangelicals, nothing seems to fit me but to me the most confusing and difficult to understand is catholicism, I do not understand how being a follower of Christ would require all the show and imagery the Catholics need.
"But once he visited the Roman Catholic church, he found himself in awe of its history and ritual, particularly its use of sight, sound, smell, taste and touch in each service."
Yeah "rituals" will do that and history, well lets say the history of the Catholic church is quite colorful.
But that's like saying all you need for a meal is crackers.
God is transcendant AND immanent.
What church do you go to?
My mom was a fallen away Catholic who returned to the Church when she married my step father( a Catholic)
I attended some classes about the faith out of curiosity. I was also very impressed by the history and depth of the religion- so I converted.
Hopefully this man and his wife will be able to clear up some of the misinformation that Protestants have about Catholics, and vice versa.
To anyone who would like to learn more about the Catholic Church, a good website is www.newadvent.org. They have the Catholic Encyclopedia on line.
I think Catholics are meant to Gregorian chant. I don't think they'll ever get Catholics to hang around and greet everyone outside the church --- it's too uncomfortable and it feels like people are mostly making sure they saw all who showed up.
"I think Catholics are meant to Gregorian chant."
I agree. I'm always much more comfortable at a traditional Mass. It just feels awkward when I try to sing some song that was written in the 1960s while the priest is praying the Mass, which was established almost 2000 years ago.
In response to your original question, no, I don't think any Catholic parishes are affiliated with the Christian Coalition. I believe there are some Catholics in the Christian Coalition as individuals.
Sola Scriptura bump. It's all there.
Except for sola scriptura of course...
They don't have them at the church I go to but I like the idea of a traditional Mass --- it's not just show and imagery, it's about "communion", --- something that unites Catholics of the present day with those of 200 years ago, 800 years ago, 1000 years ago. There's nothing like Frankencense, the Gregorian chants, gothic arches to makes you feel the presence of your religious ancestors. Maybe what looks like show and imagery is something like fireworks, flags, parades, and picnics on the 4th of July.
And who determines what is scriptura? ;)
Who determined which of the 20 some Gospels were the Word of God?
A lot depends on the Pastor and the Director of Music. The ones we have now are really supportive of folks singing from the pews. If people tell me, "I don't sing well", I just tell them, "God gave you your voice, give it back to Him!"
Interesting.
Of Alabama?
Doesn't bother me.
Guess you haven't listened to The New Jersey Mass Choir yet. Now granted they're Black and sing in a more Southern Gospel tradition, but I believe they are Catholic ... though I may be wrong.
Been a musician and singer all my life, and I dearly love those first 2 albums ... it's so easy to feel the Holy Spirit in their music every single time it's played.
I just joined an excellent choir in a Spirit-filled Assembly's of God Church that does similar material, ala Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir. I'm busy passing New Jersey Mass CD's around in hopes we can also do some of their tunes soon. Very moving and powerful stuff.
"Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved." -- Psalm 62: 1-2.
http://www.the-highway.com/scripture1_Webster.html
A nice piece that popped up on google.
It is not enough for the Scriptures to claim to be inspired. The Book of Mormon and the Koran claim inspiration, too. Sola scriptura is never mentioned in the Bible.
A Catholic building a "Christian Coalition" with Protestants. Isn't that an oxymoron since the Catholic Church believes those outside the Church are heretics?
Interesting I could not find anything mentioned of John Giles Protestant denomination.
He followed the steps of Robert Bork and Creighton Abrams.
St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas". "The right Christian faith consists in giving one's voluntary assent to Christ in all that truly belongs to His teaching. There are,therefore,two ways of deviating from Christianity: the one by refusing to believe in Christ Himself, which is the way of infidelity, common to Pagans and Jews; the other by restricting belief to certain points of Christ's doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics.
What would you have us do? Abandon Protestants to incorrect dogma or seek to correct what has been corrupted? Before you answer... consider Protestant missions. Do you leave others to flounder in incorrect dogma?
Also, Catholics have a common purpose with our Protestant brothers in Christ...
Luke 9:49 Master, said John, we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us. 50 Do not stop him, Jesus said, for whoever is not against you is for you.
We of the Catholic faith follow the Apostolic succession of the faith given to us from Christ. Those who preach the name of Jesus and do great works in His name, and are yet outside of this tradition, are not our enemy.
But once he visited the Roman Catholic church, he found himself in awe of its history and ritual, particularly its use of sight, sound, smell, taste and touch in each service.
Has Mr. Giles ever been to an Eastern Orthodox service? A Coptic service? An Ethiopian service? An Assyrian service? An Armenian service (which to me is still the most beautiful despite their theology and hostility to Israel)? Roman Catholicism is not the only alternative to Protestantism; in fact, though the "denominations" are fewer, the same problem of multiple claimants of the mantle of the "original church" still exists in the ancient liturgical world.
Nevertheless, as one who searched for most of his life and spent six years in the Catholic Church himself, I wish Mr. Giles well. I just hope he doesn't allow them to warp his attitude towards Israel or destroy his belief in Biblical inerrancy. In fact, when he discovers Catholic hostility to the literal truth of the Bible, I hope he makes the right decision even if it means (as it did eventually for me) leaving chr*stianity altogether. There was a Bible long before there was a chr*stianity, and one must keep one's priorities straight.
And unfortunately, the Catholic Church is the number one promoter in chr*stendom of the blasphemous "documentary hypothesis" (it's even taught on the official Vatican web site). When he runs into that stuff I hope his instincts kick in. I tried to remain in the church and reject this nonsense, but I was eventually convinced that I was too rebellious and didn't belong. There are a few Catholics who accept Mosaic authorship, Biblical inerrancy, and creationism, but they are a distinct minority and they aren't going to get anywhere. The Protestant "revolt" filled the Catholic Church with such a revulsion of "private interpretation" that now the belief is that evolution is almost required to illustrate that the Bible doesn't mean what it seems to say.
John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48 "I am the bread of life. 49 "Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 "This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh." 52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?"
Protestants discount Jesus's very clear words here as figurative. We are meant to consume His body, the Word, they say, not His physical body. If that were so, you would think Jesus would rather correct the misunderstanding than to drive away His followers with the incomprehensible... but He doesn't...
53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 "This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."
59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum. 60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, "This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?" 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble? 62 "What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father." 66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore. 67 So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" 68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
I'm always amazed that the Sola Scriptura crowd can tell you where every "i" should be dotted and every "t" crossed but gloss over this exchange as merely figurative.
Scripture is the Word of God. However, It is not all God ever had to say. Reference the number of times the Gospels say Jesus went somewhere and did some things... without elaboration. He stayed with His Apostles for 40 days and yet that period amounts to mere paragraphs. Even Scripture states clearly that It isn't the sum total of all that Jesus did and said and the complete history of God's revelation in minute detail...
John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that should be written.
Sure. Anybody can take CC voter guides or work with them. In the mid-1990's, the CC had a major Catholic effort on with a $1 million grant. Unfortunately the money went dry.
John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48 "I am the bread of life. 49 "Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 "This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh." 52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?"
Protestants discount Jesus's very clear words here as figurative. We are meant to consume His body, the Word, they say, not His physical body. If that were so, you would think Jesus would rather correct the misunderstanding than to drive away His followers with the incomprehensible... but He doesn't...
53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 "This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."
59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum. 60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, "This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?" 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble? 62 "What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father." 66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore. 67 So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" 68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
I'm always amazed that the Sola Scriptura crowd can tell you where every "i" should be dotted and every "t" crossed but gloss over this exchange as merely figurative.
Scripture is the Word of God. However, It is not all God ever had to say. Reference the number of times the Gospels say Jesus went somewhere and did some things... without elaboration. He stayed with His Apostles for 40 days after His Resurrection from the dead (oops) and yet that period amounts to mere paragraphs. Even Scripture states clearly that It isn't the sum total of all that Jesus did and said and the complete history of God's revelation in minute detail...
John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that should be written.
There's nothing quite like good acapela music when it is done well. I've been in a church where, during the singing, a guest asked me "where's the organ, I can't see it." Of course, they were sure they were hearing one, but were so surprised to learn that there was no instruments of any kind being used.
Actually, most Protestant churches today are not Protestant at all. They're actually Remonstrant churches and reject the superior Biblical theology of the Reformers in favor of the same human glorifying errors that infect Catholicism. Birds of a humanist feather flock together.
ping
Many people say they "were once Catholic" to bolster their opinions of the Church. However, you don't know Catholicism if you think the Church denies the authority of Scripture. Nothing in the Deposit of Faith or Sacred Tradition contradicts Scripture. Where Scripture is silent, They are not.
That's not to say that every priest and every bishop teaches inerrantly the true Catholic faith. I have encountered many who interpose their own opinions and present it as Church doctrine. Look to the real history of the faith and the doctrines which have not changed in 2000 years and you find a seamless fabric.
Granted. But, that holds true for a lot of Christians. :-)
and after Mass, everyone heads out.
Not at our parish. We have coffee and donuts, so most everyone stays. :-)
>>Has Mr. Giles ever been to an Eastern Orthodox service? A Coptic service? An Ethiopian service? An Assyrian service? An Armenian service (which to me is still the most beautiful despite their theology and hostility to Israel)?
My guess is that Mr Giles gave many reasons for his conversion and this is the only one that sounded "weak" enough to merit reporting. Yes, I believe a journalist would take that approach in reporting on a religious matter.
That's not to say that every priest and every bishop teaches inerrantly the true Catholic faith. I have encountered many who interpose their own opinions and present it as Church doctrine. Look to the real history of the faith and the doctrines which have not changed in 2000 years and you find a seamless fabric.
I've found some wonderful inerrantist Catholic web sites since getting on the Net (something I didn't have access to when I was Catholic), but despite their protests of ultra-loyalty I'm afraid they won't get anywhere. As I said, the Vatican's official web site promotes the "documentary hypothesis," which is pure blasphemy. That seems a little more authoritative than a few private Catholic inerrantist/creationist sites here and there. What do you say when the Bishop of Rome promotes this stuff?
There are a lot of bitter ex-Catholics, and I admit that I am one of them. However, I hope you can understand my position when I, a student a liberal university, turned to "my" church for help against the blasphemies being taught and was told by my "denominational counsellor" that the way I believed wasn't Catholic and I should get out of the Church. I hope you have a little more respect for me than someone who left because he wanted to be "gay" or something.
I was baptized Catholic and raised Catholic. I went to Cornall University, and possibly because of the environment, my faith became luke warm.
I started attending born again Christian meetings. I met some beautiful people who had truly been saved. These people were simply happy that Christ had entered their lives and had saved them from the sins that they were engaging in. They had really turned their lives around.
However, there was also a lot of ignorance about Catholicism there as well. Probably about a fourth of the born again Christians that I met had converted that ignorance into hatred of Catholicism. There was no reasoning with the ignorant, they didn't want to know that what they'd heard about Catholics was simply not true. Many of these Protestants, in fact, based their faith on their hatred of Catholicism - not on their love of Christ.
When the leadership of the born-again ministry also engaged in this ignorance, I decided that I couldn't continue to participate in a group that was promoting lies. I returned to active participation in the Catholic church and have discovered that just as many, if not more, people that have been saved through the Catholic church.
I understand your bitterness. I was there recently. I nearly left the Church over issues in my local parish. I came back to the Church after much prayer, Scripture and research. What I found is that there is no other church with the fullness of faith.
That also makes us a target. The Church has been under assault from the outset. However, the doctrines of the faith have never waivered. In fact, although I forget the Pope's name, there was a Pope who was purposely installed by rival factions in the Faith to be one to change the tenents of the Church to conform to their view. He espoused their view before he became Pope but could not utter the heresy once ensconced.
I believe the Catholic faith but I am not one to bow to a priest's interpretation just because of his station... I research his position in the histories of the church--the early Christians. You have to remember, the priest is only an "assistant" to the bishop in the hierarchy of the Church. Each bishop is "head" of his diocese. The Pope is one of thousands of bishops. Like Peter, his predecessor, he listens to disagreements and speaks authoritatively when the magisterium lacks agreement (see Acts and the first councel in Jerusalem). He can also be rebuked for his personal behaviors and opinions (see Paul's rebuke of Peter for his treatment of gentiles).
Any priest who told you you should leave the faith rather than seek to instruct you has done a great evil.
I have a great deal of respect for you. You seem to be someone who is genuinely searching. I would encourage you to visit St Joe Publications for some invaluable resources in the faith.
As for what is on the Vatican's website... the Pope isn't a webmaster. There are a number of cardinals who have differing opinions... I would assume one has posted what you have referenced. I haven't read it, so I can't comment further.
People sin and live in error, even those in priest's robes. That was true BC and it's true AD. Look to the Church and not to individuals.
I've studied my Protestant friends and neighbors. They have a fire for Jesus that I appreciate--more so than my Catholic friends.
I've concluded that this comes from the nature of Protestantism. These are people who are truly searching for Christ. They are active in their faith and eagerly share the treasure they've discovered. There is life among them. They are a growing thing in the days of spring.
Most Catholics I've found are like people who inherit the treasure and take it for granted.
I think many of us need to have a crisis of faith to force us into research to find our roots again. Some parishes are starting to revive but many are simply "there". There is much work for us to do to revive the American Catholic Church.
This wasn't a priest (in fact, she was female), but as the official "Catholic denominational counsellor" for my school she carried in my eyes a certain amount of authority. Honestly, what is one supposed to think the Church as opposed to individual Catholics believes when all the Catholics one has met are lockstep (Biblical) liberals? I did once confess my horrible "sin" of Biblical literalism to an elderly priest in the confessional (I had been made to feel so guilty) and even though there was a line forming outside this elderly (and therefore, I assumed, relatively traditional) priest tried to talk me out of it by ticking off the "errors" in the Bible. And this attitude seems to be not only that of the clergy in one liberal area. The American Catholic Church is rather uniform, and it tends to wear its non- and even anti- Fundamentalism on its sleeve as the ultimate sign of its respectability.
I'm from the rural Bible Belt. I'm afraid that the vast cultural gulf between people like myself and the Catholic Church is vastly underestimated (most conservatives tend to think that all conservative chr*stians are basically the same). But no matter how ancient the Catholic Church may be, in America it means urban, ethnic, alcohol-drinking, gambling, dancing, bingo, hyper-intellectualism, higher criticism, evolutionism, and an ingrained hostility to the rural American heartland (Jews aren't the only ones who suffer from that disease!). As a converted Fundamentalist even when I wasn't being "proselytized" by liberal priests I felt that I was being patronized as a poor unfortunate whose simplistic beliefs were probably congenital (being a "redneck" and all). I could not forever remain in a church that regarded me (so it seemed) as a second class citizen while being governed by liberal, evolutionist, higher critical bishops. I'm afraid you do not properly appreciate the current Catholic reality if you expect history to answer every argument.
I have a great deal of respect for you. You seem to be someone who is genuinely searching. I would encourage you to visit St Joe Publications for some invaluable resources in the faith.
I appreciate your respect, and I respect you as well. However, I have no respect whatsoever for what almost all our religious leaders (of every faith) have become. These timid, apologetic, gutless nobodies are the current counterparts of those "terrible" tyrants who ruled the world and oppressed helpless dissenters for so long? I can't see how the practitioners of almost any religion have very much in common with their ancient ancestors.
I'm a Noachide, so I believe in the authority of the Orthodox Rabbinate, but these worthies (though far more Fundamentalist theologically than most chr*stians) only utter their fundamentalisms internally and seem to regurgitate the same old Voltairean/enlightenment garbage to the rest of the world. For example, as a Noachide I would appreciate some honest comments on Catholicism by the Rabbis on its errors. Instead, what do we get? They don't care about any errors so long as the Church is "tolerant" (you know, like Joshua was!). Witness the spectacle of Orthodox rabbis (though not all of them, thank G-d) invoking Vatican II (the higher critical council) and liberal Catholics because of their "tolerance." Unfortunately, the Orthodox Jewish community seems so hung up on tolerance and pluralism as the only conditions under which they may live safely that they are allergic to pontificating, and we Noachides believe they are the only religious leaders in the world qualified to do so! So the people we need to hear stay silent while everyone else never stops yapping, and the dreadful silence is only broken when a traditional Catholic violates "tolerance," and then we get not "you people are wrong and need to come around" but "you people should listen to your most radical elements." It sickens me.
Let's face it . . . only backwoods rural Southern Fundamentalists (both white and Black, though for some reason the latter are never seen that way) really seem to actually believe anything anymore. Why is it that every "illiterate" snake-handler and Hardshell Baptist preacher can thunder with righteous indignation while "the one true church" sounds like it's being run by the Campaign for Human Development? Doesn't this bother conservative Catholics at all? But if you've never been exposed to rural Southern Fundamentalism you can't know what someone converting from that background misses. And unfortunately, when one does find the rare articulate Catholic who comes close to the mindset of a Fundamentalist, they are usually fruitcake anti-Semites who blame the "Zionists" for every evil under the sun, and this merely reinforces the unbridgeable gulf between the two religions.
In fact, religion per se seems almost totally decrepit. Why is it that almost all religious leaders are chasing the atheist intellectuals for approval and slamming the "ignorant bumpkins" who have always been their most loyal constituency? Does G-d really love intellectuals so much more than common folk that gaining one of the former justifies the loss of millions of the latter? Religion as a whole deserves a kick in the tachat for its shameful betrayal of its loyal children (often condemned to win intellectual approval) by leaders who seem to prefer one Che Guevara to all the bumpkins in the world.
Ironically, the one exception to this rule is islam, which absolutely refuses to conform to he modern western worldview. And ironically, the Communists and ACLU-ers kiss its tush (even while referring to conservative chr*stians as "talibans," "al-qaedas" and "ayatollahs") while conservatives often sound like they want Saudi Arabia to adopt feminism as an official state ideology. As I said before, as anti-moslem as I am I will never engage in "theocracy"-bashing since I'm a Theocrat myself and to do so would be the worst form of hypocrisy on my part.
When will the religions of the world ever produce a leader with the simplicity and fearlessness of a backwoods redneck preacher or a moslem scarf-wearer?
PS, I'm afraid that I can't blame the higher criticism of the Vatican web site merely on the site maintainer. I'm absolutely certain the Pope is himself a higher critic (he's certainly an evolutionist), and I don't think there's a bishop in the world who doesn't share those opinions with him. Basically only Orthodox Jews, Noachides, and Fundamentalist Protestants retain the traditional view of the Bible. The Catholic Church, including very much its clergy all across the board, are the most enthusiastic supporters of German critical theories in the world today.
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