Maybe they should lose the fish too
Posted on 05/25/2004 8:39:47 AM PDT by StoneColdGOP
Nearly half a century after Los Angeles County adopted an official seal with a tiny cross in it, the local American Civil Liberties Union chapter declared it unconstitutional and threatened on Monday to sue to have it removed.
The ACLU Southern California chapter said the "Latin cross" on the seal is a "sectarian religious symbol" and reflects an "impermissible endorsement of Christianity."
The seal was adopted 47 years ago but the ACLU never challenged it. The organization said its complaint was prompted by phone calls it received after the city of Redlands recently agreed to remove a cross from the city seal.
The letter to the county is similar to one the ACLU sent to Redlands.
"Los Angeles County is the most diverse county in the United States, and if the city of Redlands decided it had to do something, we think the county of Los Angeles should also," ACLU Executive Director Ramona Ripston said.
Douglas W. Kmiec, chairman and professor of constitutional law at the Pepperdine University School of Law, said there is little in U.S. Supreme Court precedents that would "demand such erasure of history."
"I think this is unfortunately an all-too-commonplace effort to revise history and to expunge from the historical record all evidence of religious belief," Kmiec said. "It would be hard, it seems to me, to conclude that anyone seeing the seal of Los Angeles County would feel coerced to believe in a particular religious faith."
The county seal was designed by former county Supervisor Kenneth Hahn, the father of Los Angeles Mayor James Hahn, and was adopted by the Board of Supervisors on March 1, 1957.
The cross represents the influence of the church and the history of the missions of California, which dates back to the 1700s when missions were built in San Fernando and San Gabriel, according to the county's Web site.
Mayor Hahn stands by the seal and is disappointed by the ACLU's threats that the cross should be eliminated, said his spokeswoman Shannon Murphy. She said it represents a cross at the Pilgrimage Theater, near the Hollywood Bowl, and that the mayor believes it is an important part of Los Angeles history.
County spokeswoman Judy Hammond said removing it would cost "untold thousands and thousands of dollars" because the seal is on many of the county's 5,000 buildings, thousands of vehicles, stationery, business cards, plaques, flags and Internet sites.
Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich wrote in a letter to Ripston that her letter was "right out of a George Orwell novel. Your failure to understand the history and to rewrite it from the so-called political correctness follows the hate of past book burners."
"To say Christians have no rights and we are not a part of the history of this county is offensive to us who are Christians," said Pastor Stan Lubeck of the Church at Rocky Peak in Chatsworth.
The ACLU can go to hell, whether they believe in it or not.
Might as well rename the county too. Any county name referring to angels has to be offending to someone.
Somebody building a mosque nearby?
Collectively,perhaps, the ACLU might go to hell. The Bible says every knee will bow. They will confess (too late) they were wrong to try to obliterate God from public eye.
"Might as well rename the county too. Any county name referring to angels has to be offending to someone."
What next, demanding that San Diego and San Francisco be renamed?
If so, I have a suggestion. How about Soddom and Gomorrah?
Maybe they should lose the fish too
Hell, you'd have to rename probably 70% of EVERYTHING in California, and the entire Southwest U.S. to boot.
I believe in the separation of church and state, but the ACLU has only one agenda: eliminate all traces of Christianity from public view. Who cares about a cross when there are PUBLIC SCHOOLS teaching kids verses from the Koran and letting them celebrate Islamic holidays?? What a bunch of hypocrites.
Just damn.
From the LA County web site description of the seal at http://lacounty.info/seal.htm:
The Goddess Pomona – the goddess of gardens and fruit trees – is holding in her arms a sheaf of grain, an orange, a lemon, an avocado and a few grapes to represent Los Angeles County’s agriculture.
She stands on the shore of the Pacific Ocean with the San Gabriel Mountains in the background.
The engineering instruments – the triangle and the caliper – relate to the industrial construction complex of the County and Los Angeles’ vital contribution to the conquest of space.
The Spanish galleon is the San Salvador, which Cabrillo sailed into San Pedro Harbor on October 8, 1542.
The tuna represents the fishing industry of Los Angeles County, and the championship cow, Pearlette, represents the dairy industry.
The Hollywood Bowl indicates the cultural activities, while the two stars represent the County’s motion picture and television industries.
The cross represents the influence of the church and the missions of California.
Oil derricks are symbolic of the oil fields that were discovered on Signal Hill.
The words “County of Los Angeles California” surround the seal.
(The County seal was designed by former Supervisor Kenneth Hahn, drawn by Millard Sheets and adopted by the Board of Supervisors March 1, 1957.)
I agree with Michael Savage. Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Dont the idiots have ANYTHING better to do with their efforts then silly crap like this? Unbelievable.
This is why the ACLU has made themselves irrelevant and largely ignored by the general population. They are on the way of becoming as significant as N.O.W. Good riddance.
We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure and erpetuate its blessings, do establish this Constitution.
The ACLU can go fly a kite.
Yep. They don't have a problem with the Goddess Pomona, who dominates the seal, but they do have a problem with the tiny cross...
I know this country is big and laws in various areas diverse but how can the disgusting ACLU reconcile the banishment of all things Christian in public and promote religious diversity (ala Islam) all in the same breath?? EVERYone can see it, why doesn't anyone stand up to them and do something about it? Can someone sue the ACLU? LOL?
And take the angeles out of the city name.
I am going to build a time machine. My intention is to send the ACLU back to 14th century Spain where it can plead for the separation of Church and State then I'll sell the highlights of the trail and punishment on video and DVD.
Also, that goddess representing bounty or whatever should be removed to... since I am Catholic, that pagan mythological goddess is offensive to me.
Oh, and that cow... the cow could be mistakenly viewed as the Golden Calf idol, so it too should be removed so as to not offend Jewish residents.
And those stars.... could be seen as a Jewish symbol. Best to take it down so as to not offend the Muslims.
How soon until they proclaim the constitution itself is unconstitutional?
As soon as they find the right judge.
Wait until they find out what Corpus Christi means. They'll crap their panties.
And the best way to maintain diversity is to make the pool smaller by eliminating anything and anyone that might pay tribute to a the Christian God...
Hard to argue with an idiot that would insinuate something like that...
My mother had been on the committee in the early 60's when they adopted the seal. The reason they put the cross there was because of the influence of the local churches in the town.
The city has since refused to replace the cross in the seal, leaving an empty spot.
A copy of the old seal, with a cross, hangs in the "Around the Corner" resturant downtown.
The A$$hole Commie Lawyers Union strikes again!
I've got one that even the A.C.L.U. has not thought of (yet). the state flag of Hawaii contains the Union Flag in the first quarter, this is made up of three Christian crosses, the Cross of S. George, the Cross of S. Andrew, and the Cross of S. Patrick; these are also nationally sectarian as they represent England, Scotland, and Ireland respectively.
Surely they can find some atheist communist and bribe him to be offended by that.
What a pile of sh**.
The ACLU can go to hell, whether they believe in it or not.
The only problem is that on their way to HELL, these bastards keep winning court cases left and right against the Christians here on earth! :( Where are you Lord?
Well next we will need to changes city’s names
Los Angeles......Angels?
St Louis......... Saint?
Corpus Christi....... Christ's Body!?
The ACLU must all be vampires.
RD
The ACLU can go P*** up a rope as far as I'm concerned.
There appear to be many legitimate reasons for every symbol on almost every seal I've seen that they've threatened or forced change upon.
Whatever happened to "Historical Perspective"? In 20-30 years history will have been obliterated from this country if those pinheads aren't shutdown.
Cheers!
I suspect that's exactly where the ACLU will be headed. Hope they like things hot!
One question I have for you lawyers...what if L.A. just ignored the suit and let it default, and then ignored all court rulings and fines related to it thereafter? What is the worst that could happen? Does anyone imagine Arnold sending in the CA Guard to enforce it? Seems as though it would be quickly forgotten.
Why would Sodom-to-the-South have a cross on its seal?
Aren't the people who run that place a pack of liberal, athiest, jack-in-the-box clowns? I figure that by the end of the day they'll remove the cross from the seal (having never really noticed it before), thank the ACLU for its diligence, and then cut them a nice fat check for all their trouble.
And the pagan goddess of Pomona gets a pass?! Where's the balance and perspective? What's wrong with these people?
RD
I do too, as long as that separation meets the criteria set forth in the following words:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Oh, and ACLU? You are cordially invited to dine on solid animal waste before having romantic relations with yourself.
I find it hipocritical that they go out of their way to remove crosses, but fight for muslim people to wear head dresses at our public schools, Oh and allow them for their numerous hours of prayer also.
Uh-uh. That's Biblical too. I thought maybe they would be happy with simply Diego and Francisco, but they are still the names of saints.
They won't be satisfied until the cities are renamed after their socialist heroes, like the city of St. Petersburg was renamed Leningrad shortly after the Bolshevik revolution or Saigon, now known as Ho Chi Minh City.
San Francisco might be renamed Bridgesgrad, after organized labor legend Harry Bridges.
Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.
Or, just say yes to the ACLU -- and with the characteristic speed of the typical government agency proceed to make the requested change.
First comes the mandatory studies to determine all of the places where the seal is present. Then the mandatory studies to determine the best way to make the changes. Then the mandatory draft legislation to codify the new seal sans cross. Then the mandatory 40 or 50 rewrites, addendums, amendments, riders, etc. required to get the legislation passed by the City council. Then the mandatory legislation to approve funding for making the desired changes. Then the....
ETA = Whenever.
Don't misunderestimate the Master of Strategery, I tell ya!!!
I would hope Los Angeles County's public officials tell the ACLU to go take a hike and there will be NO surrender to their demands to erase Christianity from the County's history. No one in liberal L.A County has ever been offended by the cross in the County's official seal. Its a non-issue.
see this is not a federal issue it's local and the fed courts should not have any say in what the LA County seal has on it or not. if any federal Judges had any B**Ls they would throw the suit out before it hit the door.
"...Any county name referring to angels has to be offending to someone..."
You know what? I didn't even trip to such an obvious reference. Good catch. I hope the A.C.Hell.U. doesn't notice.
As if there isn't a big enough shortage of money in this county to begin with. Let's start a fat law suit to bankrupt it more.
They seem to win a lot more than they lose. Hardly irrelevant. They are incrementally taking any sign of Christianity out of American public conscience. You may say that that is fine as people will always be able to have Christ in their house, but then so do the Chinese and all Christians in Saudi Arabia. I'm not sure I want to live in an atheistic society.
a couple of years ago, the aclu sued the city of los angeles to allow orthodox jews the right to cross city streets on saturdays without pushing the traffic light and without being ticketed by police. they won.
therefore, they're not against all religions.
and give unto God that which is God's.
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