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To: captain albala
why don't you say then "US has Albania for it's ally because that way is better to secure US interests in Balkans, and not because Albanians are/were oppressed by Serbs"?

The US and Albania are allies based on both mutual interests and on what each country can provide for the other. The United States wants diplomatic and military support, the Albanians provide a reliable vote for the USA in the UN as well as in public diplomacy such as the 2003 Vilnius letter. They have opened up their training areas for US forces to conduct large-scale training exercises that are no longer permitted or possible in Germany and Italy and, in some cases, even in the USA. They provide troops for SFOR, Iraq, and Afghanistan as well as air, land, and sea rights of passage for US and NATO forces. In turn, the USA provides Albania with economic assistance, military aid, and serves as a guarantor of the security of their borders from neighboring states. Both countries want stability in Albania. The Albanian government for obvious reasons and the USA because failed states (think Afghanistan & Somalia) provide convenient bases or havens for both criminals and terrorists. And etc as we talked about previously. As for Serb oppression of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo prior to the 99 conflict, although Albanians are grateful for what the USA and NATO did to stop Milosevic, that episode is not and was not what defines the US-Albanian community of interests.

We can conclude that all lies and propaganda against my nation is product of Clinton's administration view that it's better for US to have Serbs as bad guys and Croatian neo-fascists, bosnian islamists, and albanian chauvinists as good guys.

It is better for the US to have all good guys in the Balkans and thus have peace and stability. American policy toward the Balkans has been consistent in that regard through the last three presidents and five Secretaries of State; think of the first President Bush's 1991 "Christmas Warning" to Milosevic on Kosovo and the current administration's continued commitments to SFOR and KFOR as well as the integration of former Yugo republics into structures such as Partnership for Peace, NATO, the EU, the Adriatic Charter, etc. You ignore the very real role that Milosevic and the policies under his regime played in making Serbs the "bad guys¨. Four wars, hundreds of thousand dead, a couple million refugees, Yugoslavia split up, Serbia's economy and reputation ruined all would have seemed impossible twenty years ago. It took a special kind of guy to screw things up that phenomenally and Slobo was that guy. Milosevic was the one constant in the problems of the former Yugoslavia; not the USA, not NATO, not Slovenes or Croats or Macedonians or Albanians or Bosniaks; not even Ruder-Finn or MPRI! Djindjic was a great step forward and Kostunica is OK, but he is hindered from making a clean break from the past by domestic Serbian politics. I suspect you are aware that when your Foreign Minister recently commented on Serbian ethnic cleansing of Albanians in Kosovo in 1999, this recognition of the obvious was so controversial in Serbia that he was put up for a "no confidence¨ measure in parliament that he survived by only one vote. As long as the culture of denial continues, Serbian leaders will have difficulty in gaining the kind of international credibility they need to get a satisfactory solution for the final status of Kosovo, for getting the ICTY out of the business of trying Serb war criminals instead of letting Belgrade take care of their own business, and gaining entrance to international structures such as NATO and the EU. Guaranteed that Colin Powell and Javier Solana and Tony Blair all know what took place in Kosovo in 1998-99. They are not about to turn Kosovo back over to direct Serbian rule if Serb leaders are still denying the crimes and atrocities that precipitated NATO intervention to remove Serb rule.

Albanians wanted independence all the time.

And they still do. Before 98, some sort of compromise involving autonomy may have been feasible, but not now. Any solution in the near future must be either independence or some type of cantonisation.

So, bottom line, Germany wanted destruction of Yugoslavia, thus history repeated. German alliance with Croats, Slovenes and Bosnian muslims. US granted that, out of fear that strategic partnership with Germany could be lost.

I think you are stretching things here. The US-German strategic relationship was in no way hinged on Germany's Yugoslavia policy. As for how "Germany wanted destruction of Yugoslavia", there was a school of thought at that time that diplomatic assistance and recognition of the constituent Yugoslav Republics that wanted independence would serve peace and stability. The idea was that those republics would fight for independence if they were not able to gain it peacefully. I think it is unfair to interpret Germany's actions now without reference to the concept to which they adhered to then.

Ah, c mon, I guess you know that Bulgarians refused to obey the agreement on Russian arbitration regarding neutral zone in Macedonia. Thus, that problem had to be settled by arms. I'm speaking about 1913. balkan war.

The point was on national interests and how that affects allies and alliances. Greece, Serbia, and Bulgaria were allies in the 1912 Balkan War in order to free their territories from the old Ottoman Empire. All three had conflicting claims to Macedonia, but those claims were subsumed by the common interest in fighting the Turks. With the Turks defeated, the reason for the alliance disappeared and the competing claims in Macedonia became the dominant interest. As a result, the former allies became enemies and fought the 2d Balkan War amongst themselves only months later. It is a fact that Bulgaria started it!

you say that US supported the FARC/ELN communists in Colombia?

The opposite.

You say US didn't know before Noriega's arrest that he was narko-lord?

Sure, that is why the USA indicted Noriega almost two years before the December 1989 invasion and his arrest.

Anti-communist factions in central america were supported by US, and they were very close to narko-dealers.

The primary anti-communist fighters in Central America were the Nicaraguan Contras and the El Salvadoran government. The former had some rumors and allegations of drug-dealing that were treated as fact by the same people that believe the CIA introduced crack cocaine into the USA and that Ronald Reagan invented AIDS to kill Africans. I do not know of any involvement by the latter, but even if there were, the greatest narco-traffickers in Latin America are our enemies, the communist guerillas of Colombia.

So, some other, deeper causes had to force you to work with them against us. Would it be albanian lobby? Maybe. But I guess it can't explain everything. I guess the game is far deeper, and we (serbs) were very short-sided to see it coming.

U.S. and NATO Intervention in Kosovo was brought on by fear that the conflict and resultant humanitarian catastrophe would spread and destabilize other areas in the Balkans region. Here is a good synopsis by Ambassador A. Peter Burleigh of the United States Mission to the United Nations in a statement to the Security Council on the first day of the NATO attack:

The current situation in Kosovo is of grave concern to all of us. We and our allies have begun military action only with the greatest reluctance. But we believe that such action is necessary to respond to Belgrade's brutal persecution of Kosovar Albanians, violations of international law, excessive and indiscriminate use of force, refusal to negotiate to resolve the issue peacefully, and recent military buildup in Kosovo, all of which foreshadow a humanitarian catastrophe of immense proportions.

We have begun today's action to avert this humanitarian catastrophe and to deter further aggression and repression in Kosovo. Serb forces numbering 40,000 are now in action in and around Kosovo. 30,000 Kosovars have fled their homes just since March 19. As a result of Serb action in the last five weeks, there are more than 60,000 new refugees and displaced persons. The total number of displaced persons is approaching a quarter of a million.

The continuing offensive by the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia is generating refugees and creating pressure on neighboring countries, threatening the stability of the region. Repressive Serb action in Kosovo has already resulted in cross-border activity in Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Recent actions by Belgrade also constitute a threat to the safety of international observers and humanitarian workers in Kosovo.

Security Council resolutions 1199 and 1203 recognized that the situation in Kosovo constitutes a threat to peace and security in the region and invoked Chapter VII of the Charter. In Security Council resolution 1199, the Security Council demanded that Serbian forces take immediate steps to improve the humanitarian situation and avert the impending humanitarian catastrophe.

In regard to the contention that Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians, the point is that the Albanians believe it and therefore they can counter Serb claims to Kosovo based on ancient historical presence. Personally, I think basing current policy on who lived where hundreds or thousands of years ago is ridiculous, but in a region where 1389 seems like last year, it still has an impact.

Yes, haha, there will be lot's of ping-pong with Kosovo, but basketball is realy a serbian game, so once we get the chance, we'll slam-dunk it for good. For good.

Well as a life-long Detroit Pistons fan, I just wish your boy Darko would start doing some slam-dunking on the real basketball court and earning those millions we are paying him!


34 posted on 05/30/2004 7:21:07 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: getoffmylawn; Gael; kosta50

You guys might enjoy reading captain albala's posts.


35 posted on 05/30/2004 7:30:39 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
Don't be spouting UN resolutions -- you know very well which country will pi$$ on those resolutions when the UN stands in its way of starting a splendid little war based on, shall we say, questionable sources. Come to think of it, our friend Israel has ignored some 60 odd UN resolutions (surprise!), and at least as many many have been canned by a sole veto against all other members of the Security Countil (Now who could that be? Hint, it's not France).

Funny how UN resolutions have "merit" when they suit us, and no merit when they don't. Ever heard "practice what you preach?" Probably not. Better yet, probbaly chose not to.

38 posted on 05/30/2004 7:24:05 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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