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To: King Prout
The same argument can be made for the Apostles and the New Testament. Likewise, the books of the Old Testament are not written by God Himself.

Moreover, the Koran is a beautiful document. Claiming that the Islamofascists are the true bearers of Islam is like claiming that David Koresh or Jim Jones represented true Christianity.

The problem is Islamic civilization's failure to adjust to modernity, which is the product of historical and cultural processes, not its theology as such. If you mis-diagnose a disease, you will not know the appropriate cure. And this war is too important to base strategy on silly stereotypes.

41 posted on 05/30/2004 3:19:04 PM PDT by Seydlitz
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To: Seydlitz
you are incorrect on all counts.

The same argument can be made for the Apostles and the New Testament. Likewise, the books of the Old Testament are not written by God Himself.

In the old testament, there are multiple prophets, messengers, and historical/mythological authority figures. In the New Testament, there is Jesus, the four cannonic Gospels of four separate disciples, various epistles from various authors, etc... In the Koran and Sunnah, there is ONLY Mohammed. HUGE difference, bud.
Moreover, while both the Old and New Testaments contain unpleasant stuff, they contain NOT ONE equivalent to the ongoing present-tense commandments from On High to temporally fight, slaughter, murder, subjugate, deceive, subvert, and enslave non-believers to be found in the hundredfold throughout all Islamic Writ.
Islam and Judeo-Christianity are NOT equatable.
DEAL WITH IT.

Moreover, the Koran is a beautiful document.

Irrelevant. The denotation is ugly, vicious, violent, implacable, and immutable. That the poetry in which it is couched is pleasing to the aesthetics of some people is utterly irrelevant to the survival of civilization from the cancer that poetry bears.
DEAL WITH IT.

Claiming that the Islamofascists are the true bearers of Islam is like claiming that David Koresh or Jim Jones represented true Christianity.

You miss the point. MOHAMMED HIMSELF sets himself up as both the original islamofascist AND sole true torchbearer of Islam. The central credo of Islam is as follows:
"There is no god but Allah, and Mohammed IS his prophet."
Present tense, ongoing, eternal, infallible, EXCLUSIVE, and ABSOLUTE.
Throughout the Koran and Sunnah are requirements for all who call themselves Muslim to submit to EVERYTHING Mohammed says, to emulate him in ALL ways.
Islamofascists ARE the only "true" Muslims. DEAL WITH IT.

The problem is Islamic civilization's failure to adjust to modernity, which is the product of historical and cultural processes, not its theology as such.

See above: the single greatest factor which has stymied their civilization's advancement out of the seventh century is the THEOLOGICAL PRECEPT that Mohammed is INFALLIBLE IN ALL THINGS, including his many societal pronouncements.
DEAL WITH IT.

And this war is too important to base strategy on silly stereotypes

And what if the "stereotypes" bear a significant resemblance to reality, hrmn?
They DO.
DEAL WITH IT.
Once you deal with all of the above, you might be able to see what is going on with eyes that have shed the scales leftist uberegalitarian nonsense have placed upon them.

At the moment, however, you are blind.
DEAL WITH IT.

Rest assured, if you do not, Islam's true sons WILL ASSUREDLY DEAL WITH YOU.

44 posted on 05/30/2004 3:46:02 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: Seydlitz

Yikes. Muhammad was not a holy man. Just read the Haddiths yourself and you will get sick to your stomach if you are a decent human being.

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/


Bukhari:V4B52N270 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.’”

Tabari VIII:179 “Abdallah bin Sa’d fled to Uthman, his brother, who after hiding him, finally surrendered him to the Prophet. Uthman asked for clemency. Muhammad did not respond, remaining silent for a long time. Muhammad explained, ‘By Allah, I kept silent so that one of you might go up to him and cut off his head!’ One of the Ansar said, ‘Why didn’t you give me a sign?’ Allah’s Apostle replied, ‘A prophet does not kill by pointing.’”

Tabari VII:101 “The Khazraj asked the Prophet for permission to kill Sallam Huqayq, who was in Khaybar. He granted this.”

Tabari VII:112/Ishaq:372 “When a blind Jew became aware of the presence of the Messenger and the Muslims he rose and threw dust in their faces, saying, ‘Even if you are a prophet, I will not allow you into my garden!’ I was told that he took a handful of dirt and said, ‘If only I knew that I would not hit anyone else, Muhammad, I would throw it in your face.’ Sa’d rushed in and hit him on the head with his bow and split the Jew’s head open

It goes on and on and on ad nauseum.


45 posted on 05/30/2004 4:10:40 PM PDT by OK
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To: Seydlitz

Here are more spiritually inspirational verses:

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

Tabari VII:133/Ishaq:387 “When Muhammad saw Hamzah he said, ‘If Allah gives me victory over the Quraysh at any time, I shall mutilate thirty of their men!’ When the Muslims saw the rage of the Prophet they said, ‘By Allah, if we are victorious over them, we shall mutilate them in a way which no Arab has ever mutilated anybody.”

Tabari VIII:96 “A raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan. During it, Umm suffered a cruel death. Zyad tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman. Then they brought Umm’s daughter and Abdallah to the Messenger. Umm’s daughter belonged to Salamah who had captured her. Muhammad asked Salamah for her, and Salamah gave her to him.”


46 posted on 05/30/2004 4:18:15 PM PDT by OK
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