Posted on 06/02/2004 9:41:22 AM PDT by zechariah
Public baptism sparks controversy
Wednesday, June 2, 2004 Posted: 8:31 AM EDT (1231 GMT)
Pastor Todd Pyle baptizes Mark Maynard in the Rappahannock River at Falmouth Beach in Virginia.
RICHMOND, Virginia (AP) -- The Rev. Todd Pyle thought it was the perfect spot to baptize 12 new members of his church. The river was calm and shallow, and there was a shaded area offshore for people to stand.
"It was a very serene place," he said. "It was special."
But officials at the Falmouth Waterfront Park, a public park just outside Fredericksburg, weren't pleased. They tried to break up the ceremony, claiming it might be offensive to nearby swimmers or other people using the park. Pyle was able to finish the baptism, but then he was asked to leave.
The incident has outraged free-speech advocates.
"These people are being discriminated against because of the content of their speech," said the Rev. Patrick Mahoney, who heads the Christian Defense Coalition. "It's one of the most egregious violations of the First Amendment I have ever seen."
Mahoney's group has threatened to file a lawsuit if the park refuses to allow future gatherings by religious groups, something for which the park admits it has no written policy.
Pyle said he chose to hold an outdoor baptism, still common in parts of the South, because his Cornerstone Baptist Church in Stafford lacks an indoor baptismal pool. He said few people seemed to notice the small congregation during the 30-minute ceremony May 23.
But park officials said religious groups seeking to perform a service in the park still need to apply for a permit or else gather under a shelter or inside.
"We don't want to tread on anybody's First Amendment or constitutional rights," said Brian Robinson, director of the Fredericksburg-Stafford Park Authority. "What we try to discourage is anything not formally permitted that just sort of occurs spontaneously."
John Whitehead, director of The Rutherford Institute, a Charlottesville, Virginia-based civil liberties organization, said that's a clear violation of the church members' constitutional rights.
"Could a church have a picnic in the park and sing hymns? Of course they could," he said. "Parks have been forums since time immemorial to do these types of things."
The American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia also said in a statement: "If the park rules allow people to wade and swim in the river, then they must allow baptisms in the river."
Robinson said the park's board has formed a special committee to examine its policy and to put it in writing. If the church applies for the proper permit, he said it's "certainly possible" they would be allowed to use the river for another baptism.
Meanwhile, Pyle said he will find another place to hold outdoor baptisms.
"We're disappointed," he said. "Every single person that was baptized thanked me afterward, saying [the river] made their experience more meaningful."
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
Disparaging? LOL! Nothing disparaging there. As numerous other posts on this thread have pointed out, perhaps somewhat obliquely, Christianity is virtually unique in being singled out for elimination from the public square. This is particularly odious to some (including me) because Christianity has been very pervasive from long before the founding of this country through the present time.
Like our founding fathers, I would heartily oppose any effort to "establish an official state religion". This position does not require eliminating Christianity, nor does it require giving preference to other belief systems to "compensate" for Christianity being so pervasive, as some seem to mistakenly think.
I yield the soapbox and the remainder of my time to my esteemed FR colleagues. :-)
Mahoney's group has threatened to file a lawsuit if the park refuses to allow future gatherings by religious groups, something for which the park admits it has no written policy.
Dont threaten Mahoney....do it. And get lots of monies from these crumbs and cripple them financially.
I guess we have to start christening ships in church buildings.
Sign of the times:
NO pets!
Stay off the grass!
No cans or bottles!
No Running!
No frisbee!
No tree climbing!
No Fishing!
No Swimming!
No littering!
No Sports!
Thank you and enjoy your stay at the park!
The credo of a tyrant.
Like this one?
Acts 8:35-38
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
I bet if it was some sort of pagan moose-limb water dunking ceremony it would be A-OK with the park.
Very aggressively, I'm sure. Unless it is homo-sex. Then they probably look the other way. Literally.
The Left is determined to erode all basic freedoms provided by our Constitution; and just so their minions don't notice; they fatuously protest the "Patriot Act" and President Bush as respectively, tool and enemy of our freedom; as they pretend to stand 'for' America.
Past time for marxism to be declared a 'religion'; and the likes of Ted Kennedy/Kerry/Clinton(s)/Carter/Gore et al as prosletysers of such and so be appropriately contained. I know for sure they are most offensive to the majority of Americans. . .well, reasoned-capable Americans. . .
Time to expunge all Marxist apologia from the public domain.
(Just heard that Kofi Anan is going to be the speaker at the commencement for Harvard - something. . . Whatever; I am not surprised, exactly; but I am close to apoplectic and defintely outraged at the invitation and the very thought of it.)
If it were true, they'd have a written policy for it, now wouldn't they? Yet they don't.
If groups of people don't need a permit to gather for a picnic, they don't need one to gather for a prayer service, baptism, or whatever.
"Somebody put these "officials" in touch with the city officials of Hamtramck, MI."
Why, what goes on in Hamtramck?
Well then you really should stop watching those kinds of channels.
Acts 8
Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.
Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?"
Then Philip opened his mouth, saying, "Ye shall apply for a permit from the local authorities, for spontaneous baptisms are not allowed. Do not forget thy Ethiopian identification papers."
This is the same area where so many illegal aliens have drown in recent years (almost always alcohol related) that they had to put up signs in spanish.
I think teachings from the Bible are labeled hate speech in Canada - I'll look it up to verify.
-and- on FR: 'Bible as hate speech' signed into law in Canada
"I believe also that totalitarian ideas have taken root in the minds of intellectuals everywhere"
And unfortunately it has now filtered down into the working class.
"Don’t threaten Mahoney....do it. And get lots of monies from these crumbs and cripple them financially."
I would heartly support him if he decided to take legal action. So that I could see him get his clock cleaned.
But then again if they can't even afford their own place to perform baptisms, I doubt they are well heeled enough to mount a legal offensive.
Tell me, why is it so important for Christians to want to be in everyone's face with their religion, their getting as bad as the gay's are.
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