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Rebel flags may cost pair diplomas
MLive.com ^ | May 28, 2004 | Bob Wheaton

Posted on 06/04/2004 1:21:20 PM PDT by MikeJ75

GRAND BLANC - Bringing flags bearing the Confederate insignia to school could cost two Grand Blanc High School seniors their diplomas.

School administrators met Thursday to determine the fates of the two students and a third who was involved in an altercation sparked by the flags. School officials wouldn't announce the outcome of the meeting.

The Confederate flag has sparked a heated debate at the school about whether it's simply a symbol of the South or one of racial discrimination and slavery.

The two students who brought the flags to school Wednesday said there's nothing racist about the Confederate flag. They said it represents Southern pride, among other things, although one of the students said he wanted to apologize to peers who were offended.

(Excerpt) Read more at mlive.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; US: Michigan; US: Minnesota; US: Mississippi
KEYWORDS: boofreakinhoo; confederatecultists; confederateflag; dixie; dixiecranks; dixiefools; dixielist; flagobsessors; freedomofspeech; good; graduation; grandblanc; michigan; southronfreaks; youlostegetoverit
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I excerpted this article for two reasons. First, I don't see any reason to mention the names of the students. Second, the newspaper seems to have made an error in identifying one of the students, and I certainly do not want to post the name of someone who was not actually involved.

One of the students was disciplined for driving his vehicle on campus on his last day of high school with a rebel flag hanging from the window. The other student was suspended for bringing to school a Mississippi state flag, which apparently has a Confederate emblem in it. The students had been warned on prior occasions.

Seems to me there are significant freedom of speech issues here.

In addition, even if I am wrong about the freedom of speech issue, although I think the students were unwise (they're teenagers, so that goes without saying) to bring rebel flags to school and are lucky they didn't get beat up, stabbed or worse, I do not believe that a harsh punishment is warranted. Instead of withholding their diplomas, just give them a good paddling.

1 posted on 06/04/2004 1:21:21 PM PDT by MikeJ75
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To: stainlessbanner

ping


2 posted on 06/04/2004 1:24:18 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Ideas have consequences)
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To: MikeJ75
...driving his vehicle on campus on his last day of high school with a rebel flag hanging from the window -a Howard Dean supporter?
3 posted on 06/04/2004 1:25:36 PM PDT by Free_at_last_-2001 (is clinton in jail yet?)
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To: MikeJ75
I'd really like to apologize, especially to Eddrea, because I saw her in the office the day it happened and she was just in tears

Give me a break... Get out of Minnesota once in a while, kid...

4 posted on 06/04/2004 1:25:40 PM PDT by Lunatic Fringe (John F-ing Kerry??? NO... F-ING... WAY!!!)
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To: MikeJ75

"suspended for bringing to school a Mississippi state flag"

How long will it be before the American flag is banned?


5 posted on 06/04/2004 1:26:53 PM PDT by Spok
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To: Free_at_last_-2001
Is this the "Ride"?


6 posted on 06/04/2004 1:27:37 PM PDT by ThreeYearLurker
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Ridiculous. they should fire whoever suspended them instead.


7 posted on 06/04/2004 1:28:39 PM PDT by Legion04
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To: Spok

As America, our history our heritage, and freedoms disappear in the rear view mirror.


8 posted on 06/04/2004 1:28:52 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: MikeJ75
Maybe some free speech issues here but the cold, hard facts of life are that the Confederate battle-flag symbol and Osama Bin Laden are well-grounded in anti-Americanism!

During wartime it might be best to keep that stuff to yourself, eh?!

9 posted on 06/04/2004 1:32:15 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: MikeJ75

However if these same studenst came in with a Bush is a war criminal banner, or a Homosexual "act up" pink triangle, or hippie peace symbol, or Martha Burk Kill all Males logo, or a commie hammer and sickle THESE would be totally acceptable and rewarded.

I do not agree with bringing rebel flags or any other symbol to graduation other than those accedemic symbols. The exception is for military service men and women who go through graduation in Uniform. (way cool BTW)


10 posted on 06/04/2004 1:33:21 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: MikeJ75
In addition, even if I am wrong about the freedom of speech issue, although I think the students were unwise (they're teenagers, so that goes without saying) to bring rebel flags to school and are lucky they didn't get beat up, stabbed or worse, I do not believe that a harsh punishment is warranted. Instead of withholding their diplomas, just give them a good paddling.

Why not bring them? Why paddle them???? Has the flag ever attacked anyone? Are the other students so insane/racist/intolerant that they attack anyone with a different viewpoint? At my kids school, probably 1/4 wear Dixie Outfitter shirt DAILY - almost a uniform.

11 posted on 06/04/2004 1:33:36 PM PDT by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: Spok

Good thing they did not bring a FL flag. The X is close to a rebel flag. (or the union jack)


12 posted on 06/04/2004 1:34:25 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices

I lived in the south for a few years, and being a pseudo-northerner (ND) i have never understood the continuing problems with the stars and bars, i put a dixie bandana on my dog who is named Billie (after Billie Holliday, so i dont consider myself a racist). maybe i am ignorant, naive or have a clue, not sure which, but it is a symbol of our country just the same as when we only had 13 stars, POW/MIA flags, state flags, or flying the Maple Leaf or what ever. thats just my rant


13 posted on 06/04/2004 1:47:56 PM PDT by Docbarleypop (Navy Doc)
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To: Docbarleypop
i have never understood the continuing problems with the stars and bars

It wasn't an issue, until the NAACP and other liberals needed an issue to divide us.

14 posted on 06/04/2004 1:58:40 PM PDT by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: muawiyah

Comparing the Confederate Flag and Osama Bin laden is about as stupid as comments get. The Confederate flag is not Unamerican its a part of American History .


15 posted on 06/04/2004 2:01:47 PM PDT by sgtbono2002 (I aint wrong, I aint sorry , and I am probably going to do it again.)
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To: Spok
How long will it be before the American flag is banned? you will be allowed to bring one only if you promise to burn it!
16 posted on 06/04/2004 2:07:54 PM PDT by Free_at_last_-2001 (is clinton in jail yet?)
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"Maybe some free speech issues here but the cold, hard facts of life are that the Confederate battle-flag symbol and Osama Bin Laden are well-grounded in anti-Americanism!"

bullshit! thoughts like that are the same closed minded idiocy why these kids got suspended in the first place. I'm from the North, not south, and have to say, banning of this flag is outright ludicrous.


17 posted on 06/04/2004 2:08:09 PM PDT by Legion04
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To: MikeJ75

It seems that Georgia changed it's state flag in 2001, removing the Confederate part.


18 posted on 06/04/2004 2:16:59 PM PDT by AMERIKA
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To: MikeJ75
Seems to me there are significant freedom of speech issues here.

Not really. The law is fairly clear - a student's right to free speech does not extend to speech that is considered disruptive to the learning environment. Who decides if it's disruptive? The school officials. So sez the law, effectively. These are children, in the end, and children are not fully vested with the rights - or responsibilities - of adults in our society, and hence they do not enjoy the same range of expression that you or I do.

All that being said, withholding the diploma of the student who now appears properly apologetic seems rather harsh - I think repentance should play some part in determining the penalty. As for the other rebel-without-a-clue, perhaps giving him a good hard whack with the cluestick by removing him from his graduation will cause him to open up his eyes about his relative standing in the adult world.

19 posted on 06/04/2004 2:27:07 PM PDT by general_re (Drive offensively - the life you save may be your own.)
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To: muawiyah
"The Rebel Flag," whether Third National (only true Confederate government flag) or, in this case, probably the Flag of the Army of Tennessee, is an American Flag.

Own it.

You bought it at Appomattox, just as Lincoln played "Dixie" on the White House lawn the evening after Lee's surrender.

I'm sure if they sported an Malcolm "X" Tee or the image of Che' they'd be in high cotton.

Own our history, the human history, of The Republic.

During "wartime" the so-called "Battle Flag" of the confederacy adorned aircraft and ships. It is as American as "Don't Tread On Me."

Embrace the essential ambiguity of our nation's nobel history, our essential greatness without the whitewashed PC history. Can the wearing of any crosses can't be far behind? The Crescent, the Star of David?

20 posted on 06/04/2004 2:40:50 PM PDT by Prospero (Ad Astra!)
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To: AMERIKA
It seems that Georgia changed it's state flag in 2001, removing the Confederate part

You are both behind the times AND incorrect.

The 2001 flag had the image of the battle flag near the bottom right. It was replaced in 2003 with a flag based on the Confederate First National.

1991 Ga flag:
http://www.sos.state.ga.us/museum/html/georgia_state_flag_c_2001-2003.htm

2003 flag:
http://www.sos.state.ga.us/museum/html/georgia_state_flag_current.htm

21 posted on 06/04/2004 2:42:31 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: muawiyah
"Maybe some free speech issues here but the cold, hard facts of life are that the Confederate battle-flag symbol and Osama Bin Laden are well-grounded in anti-Americanism! During wartime it might be best to keep that stuff to yourself, eh?!"

The Confederate battle flag is an American flag. In my opinion it is YOU that is "well-grounded in anti-Americanism.


22 posted on 06/04/2004 2:54:34 PM PDT by Godebert
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To: muawiyah

Wednesday, 18 July 1956

JOINT RESOLUTION

To provide for a medal to be struck and presented to each surviving veteran of the War Between the States.

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized and directed to strike gold medals, with suitable emblems, devices, and inscriptions to be determined by the Secretary in honor of the last surviving veterans of the War Between the States who served in the Union or the Confederate forces. The medals shall be considered to be national medals within the meaning of section 3551 of the Revised Statutes of the United States. The President or any person designated by him is authorized to present a medals struck under this section to each surviving veteran of the War Between the States who served in the Union or the Confederate forces.

SEC. 2. Presentation shall be made to any surviving veteran of the War Between the States at his home or at any other suitable place with appropriate ceremonies.
70 Stat. 577

http://www.congressionalgoldmedal.com/SurvivingVeteransWarBetweenStates.gif


23 posted on 06/04/2004 3:00:18 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: MikeJ75

what in the world.... Ah, when scums pretend they can clean a "dirty" flag.

No threat involved there, just a couple diplomas.... but you can bet that being muslim and rooting for the murder of Americans, now, that is a proud free speech flag to wear indeed.


24 posted on 06/04/2004 3:28:55 PM PDT by JudgemAll
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: muawiyah
Maybe some free speech issues here but the cold, hard facts of life are that the Confederate battle-flag symbol and Osama Bin Laden are well-grounded in anti-Americanism!

Strange, I always thought the Confederates were Americans. They thought of themselves as such, and counted the first President George and Tommy J as their own. (They were from Virginia).

I'm sure if it had been a Green and Black flag of pan Arabism, it would not have been a problem in the eyes of the faculty and staff.

26 posted on 06/04/2004 4:47:59 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: El Gato
The Confederates may have counted GW and TJ, but the line of continuity from GW and TJ went through the Union.

In fact the Confederates wrote a constitution for their country ~ I do not believe they were as confused about what they were doing as are a number of moderns.

27 posted on 06/04/2004 5:20:13 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: sgtbono2002
Let's see ~ 7 of my 8 Great-great-granddaddies thought the Stars and Bars was, in fact, anti-American!

The 8th one didn't get on the right side until after the Emancipation Proclamation (had some sort of problem about Lincoln's "mission statement" and his "end game strategy")

I think I'll take their word for it.

28 posted on 06/04/2004 5:23:59 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: *dixie_list; sionnsar; Free Trapper; dcwusmc; Wampus SC; Fiddlstix; Southron Patriot; ...

bump


29 posted on 06/04/2004 5:25:54 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: PAR35

It was necessary to establish a process of national reconciliation of the people were to live in peace. That's not how it started out ~


30 posted on 06/04/2004 5:27:38 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: stainlessbanner

Kids being silly. Let them skip graduation, miss the soporific speech of the (extremely) local dignitary and the P.C. valedictorian quoting Kahlil Gibran ... and they can get their diplomas in the mail.


31 posted on 06/04/2004 6:07:10 PM PDT by Tax-chick (The old woman who lives in the 15-passenger van.)
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To: muawiyah
....are that the Confederate battle-flag symbol and Osama Bin Laden are well-grounded in anti-Americanism!

You sir have offend my honor. Were you here I would have to challenge you to a duel.

The armies of the south never marched against anything other than they invading armies of the North even when the took the battle as far North as Gettysburg. The North, on the other hand, under the "leadership" of Lincoln and his henchman Sherman went on a rampage against men, women and children burning entire towns, farms and anything they found.

If one cares to delve into the core issue of the War of Northern Agression, it was the question of whether the Federal Government had the right to unstoppable power against states and citizens and if states had any rights left to them at all.

Your view of history is an excellent example of what the modern educational system has done, and continues to do, to American youth.
32 posted on 06/04/2004 6:09:47 PM PDT by festus
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To: Prospero; stainlessbanner; stand watie; Cannoneer No. 4

You are wasting your breath.


That freeper is just one of a posse here encouraged in their bashing all things Southern.

Dixie=Osama Bin Laden.....what utter tripe. Slur any other demographic here and the mods will have your head on a platter pronto.

Too many psuedoconservatives here. They are drunk on the PC koolaid.


33 posted on 06/04/2004 6:10:46 PM PDT by wardaddy (This is it. We either win and prevail or we lose and get tossed into that dustbin W mentioned!)
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To: festus

Bump...forget the duel.

He's selling wolf tickets.


34 posted on 06/04/2004 6:11:50 PM PDT by wardaddy (This is it. We either win and prevail or we lose and get tossed into that dustbin W mentioned!)
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To: festus
You are woefully misinformed of the extent of Confederate efforts to take the war to the North. Morgan stole stuff from some of my family's farms in Southern Indiana.

Indiana had just provided the second largest number of men to the Union, so it's not likely Morgan confused the place with, let's say, Mississippi!

Then there's the Gettysburg thing ~ hardly a chunk of old Dixie, eh?!

35 posted on 06/04/2004 6:14:25 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: wardaddy
The only thing I ever "bash", if you can call it that, involving the Souf' is the idolotry of the battleflag.

It was designed for the use of the army of a foreign country.

They lost the war.

Time to put down the battle flag and get with the picture.

36 posted on 06/04/2004 6:17:29 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: MikeJ75

There are Confederate flags all over my town: flying on poles, license plates, windows of cars, windows of house, etc. and I live in a small town in Michigan (south of Ann Arbor)

It's a rights/rebel issue, more than a racism issue. We, as Americans, just don't like being told what to do regarding our freedoms.


37 posted on 06/04/2004 6:17:35 PM PDT by madison10
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To: stainlessbanner

Thanks for the bump... yet another example of a politically correct dictatorship running wild in our education system.


38 posted on 06/04/2004 6:19:49 PM PDT by CurlyBill (Democrats = John Kerry reaching for your back pocket while Barney Frank reaches for the front.)
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To: Godebert

Well said!!!


39 posted on 06/04/2004 6:21:11 PM PDT by CurlyBill (Democrats = John Kerry reaching for your back pocket while Barney Frank reaches for the front.)
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To: muawiyah; stainlessbanner; stand watie; festus
Well...Moragn got his up there on that Quixotic raid to link with Marse Robert.....that ought to make you happy? What more do you want?

You get over it and leave my ROOTS alone homeo.

You ever look around and see who shares your views on continuing Reconstruction down here? Sorryass company...largely liberals and RINOs.

You ought to be glad we are around....us and the Rocky Mountain folks carry more than our share of the conservative water around this country....and fight disproportionately in it's wars in combat units.

Do we get any appreciation? No, we get smug self righteous lecturing about blacks from folks who often only know blacks from the Cosby Show meanwhile we live in the largest proportionate black states in the nation....fairly peacefully I might add with a few exceptions.

* I like Good Yankees.....God bless em...would that they could take back their states from the do-gooder interlopers.
40 posted on 06/04/2004 6:26:39 PM PDT by wardaddy (This is it. We either win and prevail or we lose and get tossed into that dustbin W mentioned!)
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To: Godebert

BTTT!


41 posted on 06/04/2004 6:27:04 PM PDT by wardaddy (This is it. We either win and prevail or we lose and get tossed into that dustbin W mentioned!)
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To: muawiyah
It was necessary to establish a process of national reconciliation of the people were to live in peace.

In 1956? Read some history. Reconciliation had been effected by the time of the Spanish-American war. Look up General "Fighting Joe" Wheeler, the Confederate general who later commanded Black "Buffalo Soldier" troops in Cuba.

42 posted on 06/04/2004 6:27:11 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35

Died in Brooklyn by the way.

43 posted on 06/04/2004 6:31:12 PM PDT by wardaddy (This is it. We either win and prevail or we lose and get tossed into that dustbin W mentioned!)
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To: muawiyah

"...but the cold, hard facts of life are that the Confederate battle-flag symbol and Osama Bin Laden are well-grounded in anti-Americanism!"





And what are you besides ignorant and hostile?


44 posted on 06/04/2004 6:31:27 PM PDT by onyx
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To: muawiyah

If the issue was real, then flying the Confederate Flag should have as much animosity as the battle flag. If those kids would have flown the CSA flag, NO ONE would have known where it was from and they would be graduating. The battle flag is just another symbol of the battle between federalism and statism (sp?). Lee did not want to fight against his beloved Virginia, and no one knows the difference today. Historically we are blind.

DK


45 posted on 06/04/2004 6:32:43 PM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: muawiyah

Well what on earth were you doing in Indiana at a time when the South needed ya ?

Disgraceful positively disgraceful.


46 posted on 06/04/2004 6:34:48 PM PDT by festus
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To: PAR35
If reconciliation meant anything at all, and if it worked like it should have, you'd never see mention of the Confederate battle flag outside of the dictionary.

A process was started numerous times.

47 posted on 06/04/2004 6:34:54 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: stainlessbanner
Yee! Haw!
Click the Pic

48 posted on 06/04/2004 6:37:36 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: MikeJ75; wardaddy; WKB
Here's Mississippi's flag, which 68% of voters approved.


49 posted on 06/04/2004 6:40:35 PM PDT by onyx
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To: Fiddlstix

I love the photo, BTW, there are far too many people in
America today who believe there is something that protects them from being offended in the documents that founded this country. (I have not been able to find them.) I have three words for those who are offended by a flag of great historical significance: Get Over IT. Fly your rainbow flag, (it often offends me), and I will have to get over it too.


50 posted on 06/04/2004 6:45:42 PM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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