Posted on 06/15/2004 6:13:24 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4
In Iraq, a Humvee – the modern military's jeep – is involved in an enemy action or a serious fender bender or rollover almost daily. Lt. Gen. Thomas F. Metz's command has experienced 13 Humvee rollovers, resulting in 17 of his soldiers dying. "Nine of the deaths occurred in the last 90 days," he says.
Gen. Metz says that most rollovers occur when "the driver has lost control of the vehicle." In a letter to his unit, he summed up other causes, such as "aggressive driving, lack of situational awareness, rough terrain, poor /limited visibility, adverse traffic conditions, improvised configurations and failure to wear seat belts."
Amen on the aggressive driving. If bad guys are firing rockets and automatic weapons and blowing off mines left, right and center, no one in his or her right mind would drive on the most dangerous roads in the world the way we oh-so-carefully drive by a parked police car on the freeway. As longtime guerrilla-war veteran retired-Lt. Col. Ben Willis puts it, "The MO would be to put the pedal to the metal."
The problem is that the soft-skinned Humvee was conceived as a light utility truck – not a close-combat vehicle. "The Humvee is horribly thin-skinned and underpowered," says Army veteran Scott Schreiber, who drove one for six years. "It should be used in roles that don't call for armor. If the role calls for armor, it's simple: Use armor."
At the end of World War II, I was in a recon company in Italy. We started with armored cars – M-8s – but as Terrible Tito's terrorists started using roadside mines and staging ambushes similar to the mean stuff going down in Iraq, our leaders quickly got rid of those thin-skinned suckers and put us in light tanks – M-24s. Within a year, as the guerrilla war with Yugoslavia heated up, we were given Sherman tanks – M-4s – with their even-thicker armor protection. And when a blown mine or ambush slapped shrapnel or slugs against the sides of our 36-ton tanks, we sat safely inside those steel walls, with our weapons turned full-bore on the enemy. Our armor protection gave us the critical edge our troopers should have today.
But here we are in Iraq after 15 bloody months still welding steel plate onto Humvees. Sure, our soldiers gain a tad more protection, but it also turns the vehicles into rollover queens because it shifts their center of gravity.
Meanwhile, we have the Pentagon spending billions of dollars on irrelevant gold-plated fighter aircraft and on the lightly armored Stryker – a vehicle that is not battle-tried and that the Army has placed in relatively safe northern Iraq. Not to mention the thousands of potentially lifesaving armored personnel carriers – M-113s – left over from the Cold War gathering dust in depots.
What's further wrong with this picture is that Iraq has excellent steelworkers and first-class machine shops that could be put to good use upgrading captured Iraqi equipment into armored vehicles capable of protecting our warriors while also securing our long, exposed supply lines.
Our modern generals might give a lot of lip service to protecting the force, but any way you cut it, what's going on in Iraq is criminal. Clearly there's a disconnect. The brass need to spend less time in their luxurious lakefront palaces and get down on the ground with the troops. Maybe then they'll develop a greater sense of urgency about what's really needed on those killer roads the same way the 88th Division commanding general, Maj. Gen. Bryant E. Moore, did with us back in Italy and then again in Korea – where he was eventually killed as a corps commander leading from the front.
And maybe our lawmakers should stop by Walter Reed hospital and get some firsthand skinny from the terribly wounded being treated there about what a death wagon the Humvee has become from the way it's presently being used.
"How many soldiers and Marines need to be maimed or killed by roadside bombs before Congress will get off their tails?" Mary Martino rightfully asks. "My son is serving his country with honor and pride in Iraq ... and has the right to expect that his country will do whatever it takes to protect him in his duties."
Our modern generals might give a lot of lip service to protecting the force, but any way you cut it, what's going on in Iraq is criminal. Clearly there's a disconnect. The brass need to spend less time in their luxurious lakefront palaces and get down on the ground with the troops. Maybe then they'll develop a greater sense of urgency about what's really needed on those killer roads the same way the 88th Division commanding general, Maj. Gen. Bryant E. Moore, did with us back in Italy and then again in Korea – where he was eventually killed as a corps commander leading from the front.
This is the military version of class warfare rhetoric. I doubt having a Corps commander killed will be all that helpful.
Numerous vehicles could be procured that would provide superior protection, such as the Mamba, Scarab, Cougar, Cobra, Dingo, Eagle IV, VBL, RG-31 and ASV. Most were not invented here and have no patrons in the Senate.
Hackworth's stock has gone way down with me, too. He's too psychotic to be considered a patriot.
My son called the other night and just happened to mention that he had been downgraded from a more substantial vehicle to a humvee. He said it was an armoured vehicle so I don't know if that means it had metal plates attached to it. He only goes out on missions weekly so they gave the other vehicle to patrols that go out daily. I pray a lot.
Ditto..
I try to look a the Hack's stuff objectively even though my opinion of him is that he's a tired ole discredited "hack".
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The new RPG-27 and 29 series seem to answer that question...we can't. And I doubt a 152MM-155MM IED would find an APC impervious. That just wasn't my experience in VN.
Do I wish we could have a "space-age" type vehicle that would survive multiple hits from RPGs after being first blown-up by an IED? Of course.
We constantly hear the "experts" say we need to move to a more rapid, mobile Force. This by definition implies lighter weight vehicles. There are reasons why SUVs don't make it to the Daytona 500...
I don't like Hackworth but I'm with him on this, get those boys some armor.
The was a post here a few days ago about a Marine ambush engagement where they had no Air. Where are the A-10s? Where was Marine Air?
Where are the Tanks in these convoys? What are the Ops Officers doing?IMHO
What's this with "Terrible Tito's terrorists?" If I recall correctly, we helped Tito's resistance fighters, and later the Russians occupied Yugoslavia after pushing out the Germans.
Now Hackworth wants to be the new Ralph Nader. I have a good title for him: "Unsafe at any speed."
Hackworth went off the rails on Iraq and he has lost most of his old audience. Now he's desperate for attention.
It's not that the army isn't trying to obtain as many armored Humvees as possible. They simply can't be produced quickly enough.
The up-armors are fairly secure. Mr. AQGeiger had an IED go off right next to his, and he had only ringing in his ears afterward. If he were in a regular Humvee, I'd be a widow right now.
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Is Mr. AQGeiger still over there?
No. He returned from an eleven-month deployment this past February. Unfortunately, he's already being prepared for the next go-round. He'll be back in Iraq by February 2005 at the latest.
Agreed. I almost never post his stuff. In this case I made an exception. He is about 75% right, here.
Shoot, by then Anaconda will be main post for Camp Reagan, which will have ranges and training areas and impact areas out to the Syrian border, and the 11th ACR to be the OPFOR. By 2010 it will be an accompanied tour. Gotta think positively.
Gen Metz basically said " his troops are not trained"
Well general, instead of acting like a democrat - how about teaching them how to drive!
While I was in Recon, we would take our jeeps all through the mountains at Camp Pendleton learning how to handle them in very rough terrain. We did lose a jeep once in a while down a ravine.
The desert training at 29 Palms was easier. Remember "Rat Patrol" on TV? That's what we trained for at 29-Palms back in the 70's
"Where are the Tanks in these convoys?"
Convoys do not use air cover, nor tanks! Tanks cannot help, air cover? unless you put a helicopter hovering right above --- wouldn't the terrorist like that!
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