FIRST, THEY CAME FOR THE TRUTH (Fr. Martin Niemoeller was a phony)

Best Writers ^ | 17 June 2004 | Michael Shaw

[Mr. Silverback]

Agree 100%.

[mrustow]

FIRST, THEY CAME FOR THE TRUTH (Fr. Martin Niemoeller was a phony) Whatever one might say about this article, Martin Niemoeller was not a Catholic. Your use of the "Fr." (Father) title in your article title wrongly suggests that he was.

I seem to recall one of my classmates at the Samuel Goldwyn School of Theology making just that point, and the professor responding, "Same difference." And seeing that the prof was a doctor of divine thinkology, who was I to argue?

[mrustow]

I love it!

First they came for the fish, and I did not speak out because I was not a fish.
Then they came for the chickens, and I did not speak out because I was not a chicken.
Then they came for the cattle, and I did not speak out because I was not a cattle.
Finally, they came for me and there was no one left to speak out.

Graffiti found in a slaughterhouse bathroom.

[mrustow]

There are so many contradicitons within the article itself...Just so folks don't nutso there were lots of people in 1931 that thought a dtrong leader ( a Fuhrer) was a necessity for Germany. Moreover, I don't think anyone ever put this particular cleric up on a pedestal...He is not comparable to say og how about Neibhur (The Cost of Disciplieship) who as a Protestant understood exactly the nature of what Hitler was doing. Sometimes it is not so important after history has moved on to find things to complain about. What we should be looking at these days is the EVIL that is

And I'll be glad to address those contradictions, just as soon as you point them out. You can't just claim that a writer contradicts himself, and then not point out a single one. It looks more like you didn't like the tone of the piece, but have no arguments against it.

[catnfishdude]

Hind sights 20-20

[catnfishdude]

I don't know what a "Bapstist" may be, but as a BAPTIST,
( who normally just prefers to be called a Christian;) I don't believe I am in a position to condemn anyone to "hell." On God has the power to do that. Hopefully you were just being sarcastic.

[catnfishdude]

Well spoken. but one man with one assault rifle has little chance against an army better to unite while there is still time. I pray that we are not already to late in the U.S.A.

[catnfishdude]

Can't catch the clap by naking "war."

[Oztrich Boy]

naw, "Clown" as in "Bozo"

[pttttt]

I seem to recall one of my classmates at the Samuel Goldwyn School of Theology making just that point, and the professor responding, "Same difference." And seeing that the prof was a doctor of divine thinkology, who was I to argue?

Oh, I get it ...

[solitas]

Niemoeller was a conservative WWI German U-Boat commander

"...nein, nein, nein: chust fire vun torpedo; zere's no point in firing two iff ze furst vun hits der tahrget. und iff zey get avay, ve can say ve tried..."

[mrustow]

naw, "Clown" as in "Bozo"

Oh. That's too bad. Well, you can lead a man to print, but you can't make him think.

[claudiustg]

What a foul, slanderous piece of propaganda! I don't see how anyone gains from such hateful musings, much less Catholics.

[cyn]

"Niemoeller did a tough right thing at great cost at a dark moment in human history, and that can't be taken away." -- iow, he was an ordinary person who did extraordinary deeds, when he clearly saw the need to act.

Thanks for your answer -- it beat what I was able to find on google, and gave possible explanation for his later pacifist views. Though I still can't fathom how he could align himself with the communists and against the west, considering his up-close-and-personal look at Hitler's regime and the fact that the west liberated Germany.

[jnarcus]

You are so very correct...my brain must be set to old age today...I offer my most humble apologies for such an egregious error. I am not worthy...bowing deeply

[Rastus]

"First they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist."

Actually, that isn't a bad idea, seeing how communists were the biggest butchers in human history. I propose a revision!

"First they came for the mass murderers, and I did not speak out because I was not a mass murderer."

How about:

"First they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was one of the ones coming for them!"

Or something to that effect. ;)

[stands2reason]

Does that mean that the plural of "Ping" is "Pingices"? ;0)

Hey now, I happen to know in the Bapstist religion there's NO DUNCING! So, knock it off!! (/Admin moderator)

First, they came for the verbs, and I said nothing for verbing weirds language.
Then they arrival for the nouns and I speech nothing for I no verbs.

[jnarcus]

Oh how about the big glaring one first...he was arrested by the Gestapo in 1937 and spent the rest of the war in Dachou and yet the next paragraph says that in 1939 he volunteered for the army...You might want to addres why the title of Father is assigned to this Protestant and frankly to claim that Catholica helped people escape is rather dubious particularly since the "Church" seemed more intent on its compact with the Germans and helping NAZIs elude arrest after the war.

[Dick Holmes]

Niemoeller was a conservative WWI German U-Boat commander who later became a pastor. The offer to join the military in 1939 is wholly consistent with his attitude until the end of the the war.

Good post. I googled this topic just now, and came up with a coupla links. There's some debate about his "volunteering " while in custody:

Niemöller remained a German nationalist and on the outbreak of the Second World War he wrote to Admiral Erich Raeder offering to serve in the German Navy. The letter was passed to Joseph Goebbels who dismissed the idea as he believed it was an attempt by Niemöller to save his life. Goebbels now leaked the latter to undermine Niemöller's credibility. Niemöller's supporters retaliated by claiming the letter was a forgery. This version was believed and Niemöller became a symbol in Britain of resistance in Nazi Germany.

There's also this page that seems well researched and verifies that he said and wrote something like the famous quote, several times if not in so many words.

[bereanway]

I knew that you knew that. I tend to suffer from the same thing (brain fade) and find that as I advance in years it has become my default mode.

I know more about Bonhoeffer than Niemoeller as I've read several of Bonhoeffer's books. Even though Bonhoeffer was hanged by the Nazi's at Flossenburg days before it was liberated by the Allies his legacy doesn't seem to be questioned as much. I guess it could be a lot of Bonhoeffer's writings remain (from even while he was in prison) which help to clarify his positions.