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Speed of light may have changed recently
New Scientist ^ | 6/30/04 | Eugenie Samuel Reich

Posted on 06/30/2004 1:35:28 PM PDT by NukeMan

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To: NukeMan

So the Bible is right again?


181 posted on 07/01/2004 6:11:56 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: null and void; Shryke
4004 BC

Assuming James Ussher was correct.
Facinating book : Annals of the World
Have either of you read it?
182 posted on 07/01/2004 6:12:42 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Light Speed
E.U. is sure to be wrong at many points.

In this you are already proven right. I wouldn't bet on the rest of your post.

183 posted on 07/01/2004 6:14:37 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Billthedrill
Two billion years ago. I didn't get the memo.

It was right after "Drink More Ovaltine" on the decoder ring message.

184 posted on 07/01/2004 6:15:33 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedy family legacy - can't skipper a boat, can't fly, can't drive, can't ski)
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To: VadeRetro
Lower? Wasn't it supposed to have been faster 6000 years ago?

From the Article:

Horizon problem

Some physicists would happily accept a variable alpha. For example, if it had been lower in the past, meaning a higher speed of light, it would solve the "horizon problem".

Cosmologists have struggled to explain why far-flung regions of the universe are at roughly the same temperature. It implies that these regions were once close enough to exchange energy and even out the temperature, yet current models of the early universe prevent this from happening, unless they assume an ultra-fast expansion right after the big bang.

However, a higher speed of light early in the history of the universe would allow energy to pass between these areas in the form of light.

185 posted on 07/01/2004 6:23:22 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: ngc6656; RightWhale
The speed of light and the color of light are related.
I know I'm opening myself up here, but IF I remember my physics correctly the color's visible have to do with the frequency, of oscillation, not the speed of travel.
Be easy on me, I've not been through this stuff in quite a while AND my memory is pretty full. Consequently, when I have something new to store in memory, I have to find something old and unused to throw out. I could have thrown this information out.
186 posted on 07/01/2004 6:28:13 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: P-Marlowe
However, a higher speed of light early in the history of the universe would allow energy to pass between these areas in the form of light.

IOW, a faster light-speed (lower alpha) would be useful in the very earliest (pre-inflation) nanoseconds of the universe, yes. Useful in explaining the large-scale uniformity of the universe we see now. However, this does not help what some people are trying to do with this story.

187 posted on 07/01/2004 6:30:02 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: DallasMike
Not exactly a big help for the Young Earth Creationists, is it?
Very interesting article. Again, thanks for the ping.
It's not a problem at all. Everything that the scientists are saying is based on their (commonly accepted assumptions I'll agree) assumption. I'll reiterate, they were not there and do not know. I'll still accept Gods word on it, which has NOT changed, before I'll accept the word of scientists who don't even know how much there is to know, much less how much they do know.

Regards,
GE
188 posted on 07/01/2004 6:33:00 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: GrandEagle
I know I'm opening myself up here, but IF I remember my physics correctly the color's visible have to do with the frequency, of oscillation, not the speed of travel.

Other things being held equal, a change in the speed of light would change the frequency of arrival of the peaks and valleys in the waveform.

Other things are not exactly equal, however, as it appears space and the light waveforms within have been stretched over time. Assuming the speed of light to be constant, that would red-shift light in transit so that objects appear redder the farther away they are. Since we indeed see a correlation between distance and redshift, it appears the universe has been expanding.

189 posted on 07/01/2004 6:37:18 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Cap Huff
"I'm waiting to be enlightened."

The speed of enlightment has changed....

190 posted on 07/01/2004 6:37:33 AM PDT by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: GrandEagle

I have not read it. What does it discuss?


191 posted on 07/01/2004 6:40:16 AM PDT by Shryke (Never retreat. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.)
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To: Southack
Experiments in the last decade have managed to slow light down, in some cases to as little as ten miles per hour...

Ah ha! This would explain why I am having greater difficulty driving at night. I just need faster headlights. And all this time I thought I needed glasses or something. hmmm . . . and maybe all this time has not really been that much time.

192 posted on 07/01/2004 6:40:23 AM PDT by Colorado Doug
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To: NukeMan
The speed of light, one of the most sacrosanct of the universal physical constants, may have been lower as recently as two billion years ago - and not in some far corner of the universe, but right here on Earth.

Must be global warming... Oh, yeah, caused by the Bush Administration. (hee hee)

193 posted on 07/01/2004 7:10:56 AM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: Shryke
It was written in the 1500's by a Bishop James Ussher. It is generally considered the basis for the 4004 b.C. creation date. He took Gods word and put it in historical context. He took biblical events and historical events and wrote a history book that chronologically discusses both historical and Biblical events; putting them on a time scale. For example, you can see what was happening in the rest of the world when the Jewish people left Egypt for the promised land.
It is extremely fascinating to me. I am still reading it and have only finished about 1/3'rd of it.
It had not been printed for several hundred years until AIG (Answers In Geneses) reprinted it (with updated English - the English of the 1500's is nearly unreadable today). They have two bindings - the leather one is very expensive, but the regular hardback is around $60.00 or so.
194 posted on 07/01/2004 7:14:57 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Gorjus
Two other guys names Lorentz and Fitsgerald developed a relationship that quantified how much things at very high speed behaved differently than those at normal speeds. This 'Lorentz-Fitgerald contraction' was SQRT(1 - V**2/C**2).

Actually, it was Heaviside who first calculated the distortion of the electromagnetic fields of a moving charge.

One good thing about the General Theory of Relativity is that it provided an explanation for gravity. It was always a challenge to conventional physics to explain action at at distance without an interaction phenomenon. How does the earth know the sun is over there pulling on us? And how does the sun manage to grab the earth and yank it around without a string between the two?

Heaviside published the first serious post-Newtonian gravitational theory in 1893, his "A Gravitational and Electromagnetic Analogy" in Electromagnetic Theory Vol I. He introduced the concept of mass currents, gravitomagnetic fields, and gravity waves. Not coincidentally, Einstein's GR reduces to Heaviside's theory in the weak field limit.

195 posted on 07/01/2004 7:15:04 AM PDT by mikegi
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To: VadeRetro
Thanks for the memory update. It's a bummer getting old...
But for the present, it beats the alternative.
196 posted on 07/01/2004 7:17:02 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: VadeRetro
However, this does not help what some people are trying to do with this story.

I think the point of the article and what we need to take away from it is that there is evidence that the speed of light itself is relative and variable. There is evidence that it at one time was faster and at another time was slower than it is now. So the real possibility exists that it was, at one time in the history of this universe, infinitely faster than it is now and that at another point, the brakes could have been put on it and it could have slowed to a level perhaps significantly if not infintely slower than it is now. But at all times the speed of light was the speed of light.

Now if the speed of light was at one time faster than it is now, what would that do to time? If the speed of light is variable, as is suggested by this article, then what, if anything, is constant?

197 posted on 07/01/2004 7:23:37 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: VadeRetro; GrandEagle
As best I can figure, the speeding of light in "recent" times (i.e, post-emission along the way) would BLUE-shift the light as we see it here and now compared to how it would have looked to someone near the emitting object back when.

My understanding is very different. Light moves at the speed of light (in a vacuum), and this is true regardless of its color. The color we see is the result of the wavelength, and that's determined by whether the source of the light is moving away from us (stretched out, thus red) or moving toward us (compressed, thus blue).

If light has been speeding up, but not the rate of expansion of the universe, then the degree of redshifting (or blueshifting) probably wouldn't change (I'm winging it here). There is also the independent line of evidence provided by the brightness of Cepheid variables. This always corresponds with observed redshifts, and it was Hubble's big clue that redshift and distance were related. Yet another line of evidence is the absorption of light as it passes through the Lyman alpha forest, which I don't fully understand, but I'm told it independently confirms all the other observations about the distance of stars and the rate of expansion of the universe.

198 posted on 07/01/2004 7:24:23 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: RightWhale
The speed of light and the color of light are related. If the speed of light has increased, would the old light from galaxies long ago and far away appear to be redshifted?

I think it would depend on how the observer is affected by the changed speed of light. Put yourself in the position of a omniscient being who is unaffected by the change. To you, the speed of light has changed and you could measure the difference in light travel time from point A to point B. But to the non-omniscient who are affected by the light speed change, their concept of distance would change with the speed of light. I think the change in distance would be proportional to the change in the speed of light: ie. no net change in measured frequency. Think of the Doppler Effect where only relative motion can be detected (to the first order).

I think a far more interesting concept is the idea of an anisotropic speed of light. Local differences could be measured.

199 posted on 07/01/2004 7:29:38 AM PDT by mikegi
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To: GrandEagle
Perhaps I will read it! I usually stick to fiction, but who knows?

I wish to clear something up that may be confusing, which is my fault. I am a firm believer in evolution. On earlier posts I was simply joshing some of the regular posters on these threads - spicing things up if you will. If I have misled you, forgive me.

200 posted on 07/01/2004 7:29:39 AM PDT by Shryke (Never retreat. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.)
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