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To: hocndoc
We can't agree to disagree on the definition, as the definition in general use is important, since a common language is the basis for any discussion. The evidence - whether it is "interesting" to you or not - is obvious as to the definition of default, from the preponderence of the evidence.

Then don't agree to disagree. If you have some convincing evidence that my command of the language has left me ignorant of some "definition in general use" of "default position", then let me know. Maybe I'll just take a little poll of people around me since I'm sure they will all automatically parrot your specific definition.

"A common language" allows us to give context and meaning to concepts, which I have done ad nauseum for my use of "default position". Of course, it would require that you actually read my posts, which, under the circumstances, is extremely doubtful.

As to the definition of "default", I wonder if my years as a computer programmer, not to mention my grade school education, not to mention my use of an English dictionary, has helped with that. I am still mystified as to your wierd and pointless Google search. Somehow it is meant to defend your position that zygotes are thinking creatures with complex value systems? Don't cut back on your Haldol. Here's a Google search for you.

The rule for a default to the negative is not a default to no values, it is a default to the denial of a given value unless the postive can be proven. In this case, you have agreed that humans are thinking and that thinking creatures have values.

It's not just rule, it's a biological fact. I had no value for the concept of windowed transforms with I was 2 months old. And despite your insistence, I did not "deny" that value either. I was as incapable of denials as I was of values.

However, the ability to recognize that one lacks a value, does allow one to openly deny the value. E.g., I deny a value for trofligate counterpenance. I.e., I realize that I don't even know what the he!! it is.

In this case, you have agreed that humans are thinking and that thinking creatures have values.

Absolutely. Humans are also unthinking creatures that lack values.

The statement, "By default we are unthinking creatures who do not value or justify things.." is untrue, for it's obvious that we are thinking creatures who value or we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

Crippled logic. Here's why. Zygotes are human. Zygotes are unthinking creatures who do not value or justify things. All humans who ever reach a state of thinking and valuing were once zygotes. All the changes during developement that stimulate thoughts or values are changes upon the tabula rasa of the zygote. The position of the tabula rasa is therefore the default position of *all* humans (of absolutely all ages), upon which some values may develop.

It undoubtedly will shock you to learn that there are some humans who are not (and will never be capable of) "having this discussion".

203 posted on 07/13/2004 4:14:01 PM PDT by beavus
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To: beavus

As I have said before, it's not necessary for a member of the species to display all of the characteristics of the species. The characteristic of the species Homo sapiens - the default - is one of a thinking being, although there will be a variance in the expression among members and across time. Individuals as well as social groups have common values: don't kill, don't steal, do be fair, etc.

Google searches, as you've demonstrated, are excellent tools to look up words and their usage. The common usage of "default" (actually, 'default position') was proven by the search link, which also yielded a discussion of argument to the negative. Default is not the lowest common denominator, it's the neutral or fall back position when no active change is made by the operator.







204 posted on 07/13/2004 7:59:53 PM PDT by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
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