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To: tpaine
1. The BOR's apply to ALL levels of our government. All of our officials are required to swear an oath to support the U.S. Constitution as the supreme Law of the Land. Read Art. VI.

It doesn't follow that, because all officials are required to swear an oath to support the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, when adopted, applied to all levels of government. At the time, it did not. You're being anachronistic.

2. The Bill of Rights did not apply to the states. At the time the Bill of Rights was adopted there were states with their own official state churches.

Yep, they were 'grandfathered' in. Big deal. Utah was later refused Statehood until they abandoned their state approved religious establishments.

No, not grandfathered in. That Utah was refused statehood over state-approved religious establishments is a reflection of subsequent interpretations of the Bill of Rights; it's not an indication of original intent.

3. This was not seen by any of the signers as a violation of the Bill of Rights. The reason? The Bill of Rights were limitations placed on the federal government by the state representatives that signed the Constitution. The states existed prior to the Constitution.

They existed as former Colonies, independent from English rule. They became States of the USA upon ratification of our Constitution.

Nope. As colonies, they were not, by definition, independent from English rule. They ceased being colonies and became sovereign, independent states when they signed the Declaration of Independence. Upon ratification of the Constitution, the formerly independent states became states united under the Constitution.
51 posted on 07/09/2004 9:22:33 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan
The BOR's apply to ALL levels of our government. All of our officials are required to swear an oath to support the U.S. Constitution as the supreme Law of the Land. Read Art. VI.

It doesn't follow that, because all officials are required to swear an oath to support the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, when adopted, applied to all levels of government.

Yes, that is what Art. VI says. The Constitution & its Amendments are the Law of the Land.

At the time, it did not. You're being anachronistic.

You're being idiotic. Our Constitutions words haven't changed.

The Bill of Rights did not apply to the states. At the time the Bill of Rights was adopted there were states with their own official state churches.

Yep, they were 'grandfathered' in. Big deal. Utah was later refused Statehood until they abandoned their state approved religious establishments.

No, not grandfathered in.

State religions died out.

That Utah was refused statehood over state-approved religious establishments is a reflection of subsequent interpretations of the Bill of Rights; it's not an indication of original intent.

Make your proof. Mine is in the fact, -- the 14th was not a factor in Utahs statehood problems. 'Respecting an establishment of religion', - polygamy, - was, -- three times prior to passage of the 14th in '68.

The states existed prior to the Constitution.

They existed as former Colonies, independent from English rule. They became States of the USA upon ratification of our Constitution.

Nope. As colonies, they were not, by definition, independent from English rule. They ceased being colonies and became sovereign, independent states when they signed the Declaration of Independence. Upon ratification of the Constitution, the formerly independent states became states united under the Constitution.

Yep. Upon ratification of the Constitution, the formerly independent colonies/sovereign states became US States, - united under our Constitution.

53 posted on 07/09/2004 10:49:36 PM PDT by tpaine (The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being" -- Solzhenitsyn.)
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