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Brian Kilmeade praises JESUS this morning on FOX

Posted on 07/09/2004 9:50:27 AM PDT by mandingo republican

Did anyone here this. Incredible and a breath of fresh air! There was a group of cute Christian girls outside the Fox studios waving signs that said "Jesus Love You!"

When the segment went inside to continue the news, Brian Kilmeade said something to the extent that it is great to hear that JESUS loves you.

This would of never happened on the commie networks. Can you imagine a Baal worshipping abortion rights loving Katie Kouric saying something like this on the Today Show?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; US: New York
KEYWORDS: briankilmeade; fox; foxnews; jesus; morning; religion

1 posted on 07/09/2004 9:50:28 AM PDT by mandingo republican
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To: mandingo republican
Can you imagine a Baal worshipping abortion rights loving Katie Kouric saying something like this on the Today Show

That Katie is a Baal worshipping abortion supporter?

Yeah, I can imagine that...

2 posted on 07/09/2004 9:53:38 AM PDT by RaceBannon (God Bless Ronald Reagan, and may America Bless God!)
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To: RaceBannon

Yep, ya gotta love Fox News. Finally some news that missed the DNC filtering process.


3 posted on 07/09/2004 9:55:23 AM PDT by 50 Cal (Next time you think nobody cares if you exist just don't pay the IRS!)
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To: mandingo republican

Brian also made a remark about females and 'consuming'. It got some frowns. The remark in context was innocent, but out of context wasn't.

[He had made similar comments previously that were 'off-color'.]


4 posted on 07/09/2004 9:57:39 AM PDT by TomGuy (After 20 years in the Senate, all Kerry has to run on is 4 months of service in Viet Nam.)
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To: RaceBannon

Not Baal.......Molech........


5 posted on 07/09/2004 9:59:12 AM PDT by Red Badger (The Army makes the world safe for democracy....The Marines make the world safe for the Army...)
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To: mandingo republican

When the two women hostages were rescued in Afghanistan,
Laurie Dhue said, "Praise the Lord!" as they were going
to commercial.

My admiration of her was raised considerably. ;o)


6 posted on 07/09/2004 11:01:34 AM PDT by dixiechick2000 (President Bush is a mensch in cowboy boots.)
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To: mandingo republican
Baal worshipping abortion rights loving Katie Kouric

LOL!!! Boy, you've sure got her pegged ;)

7 posted on 07/09/2004 11:14:17 AM PDT by TonyRo76 (Proud to be a part of the Reagan Generation. God Bless America!!)
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To: mandingo republican
Jesus doesn't love everyone. In fact He hates those He never died for. He intends to put them in hell and will LAUGH at them at the day of judgement.

Anyone who says Jesus loves everyone does not know the Christ of the Bible and have swallowed the Arminian Free Will lie of self worship.

Ps 5:5, (KJV), The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity

Rom 9:13, (KJV), As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Mal 1:3, (KJV), And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Jn 17:9, (KJV), I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Mat 7:23, "I never knew (loved) you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity...”

Ps 92:6-7, (KJV), A brutish man knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this. (7) When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:

John 14:21, "... he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him ..." Verse 23, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him ..."

Mourn God may Hate You!

Big round yellow buttons everywhere displaying the "happy face" . . . a wide smile over the slogan, "Smile, God loves you."

Big red stickers plastered over every thing from Bibles to bumpers announcing "Jesus loves you." A prominent preacher promises the millions in his television audience regularly, "something good is going to happen to you this very day."

A pastor instructs his staff to answer the telephone with "Good morning, Jesus loves you."

An evangelistic tract begins with, "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life."

The electronic sign atop the state's denominational headquarters flashes repeatedly: "God is no respector of persons. God loves everybody."

With such an abundance of optimistic assertions of God's favor, one would be almost persuaded that God is more pleased with this wicked generation than any one that has previously lived. Certainly He has not made such declarations to anyone before. The heralds of this "gospel" will certainly find no precedent for it in the Bible. The sacred scripture never makes such promiscuous promises of God's love. His love is always carefully qualified.

John 14:21, "... he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him ..." Verse 23, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him ..."

The Bible nowhere says that God loves all men alike. He loves certain persons. Isaiah 43:4, "Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee therefore I will give men for thee and people for thy life." Hebrews 12:6, "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth ... But if ye be without chastisement whereof all (sons) are partakers, then are ye bastards and not sons." It is here declared that God loves some and those whom he loves are sons and are partakers of chastisement. Those without are not sons and not loved.

The passage generally referred to as proof of God's love for all men is John 3:16, "For God so loved the world ..." But what world is John talking about here? Not the planet world of Acts 17:24. Not the Gentile-only world of Romans 11:12, since Jews excluded here will also be saved. Certainly not the wicked world of men of John 14:22 to which Jesus refused to reveal himself, or the rejected world of John 17:9 for which the Saviour would not pray.

The same Greek word, kosmos, is used in every one of these passages, and they all mean a different "world." What, then is the world that God loved and gave His Son for? Since it cannot be any of the above, it must mean the same world of John 3:17. The world that through Him should be saved. That is the world that God loves, and no other. It cannot mean all men indiscriminately, but those for whom Christ was given and who should be saved. All others are ruled out by the sober declarations of the scriptures.

So it also is with Romans 5:8, "God commendeth his love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." All men were yet in sins when Christ died, yet God seeing the finished work of the Saviour on behalf of those who should trust in him, loved us as already in His Son. It is us who believe upon Him toward whom He has commended His love.

So it is with II Peter 3:9 ... he is longsuffering to usward, not willing that any (of us) should perish. Christ is not delaying His coming in hopes that every one shall be saved. He declared that multitudes will go to hell. He is delaying His coming until all of us are saved. Are you one of the "us", dear friend, who shall trust in Christ, or will you be one of the millions who will tumble into hell?

We must go a step further. Not only does God not love all men: He hates some! Deuteronomy 32:19, "he abhorred them." Psalm 5:5, "thou hatest all the workers of iniquity." Psalm 11:5, "him that loveth violence, his soul hateth." Romans 9:12, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." These passages have generally been shrugged off with the ignorant cliche, "God hates the sin but loves the sinner." A nice thought, but unscriptural and impossible. Unscriptural because the word declares that God hates the very person of the wicked. Impossible because sin is never found outside the sinner. Separate sin and sinner, and you have neither a sin to hate or a sinner to love. Sin always exists in a man. God even had to put our sin upon His Son before He could judge it. He put all the sins of His people upon Jesus Christ and poured out His full unmitigated wrath upon Him, the man, not just the sin.

No, my friend, if you are yet unrepentant in your selfish rebellion against God, His wrath is revealed from heaven against you.

He hates you.

He despises the sight of you.

He intends to put you in hell, and it is only His gracious longsuffering and forbearance that keeps you from the burning pit this very moment. He is not obliged to withhold His judgment another minute.

If you now, dear reader, have not been deluded into believing this foolish nonsense about God loving you in your sins, if you see that it is altogether reasonable for God's anger to burn hot against you, if you see yourself, as you indeed are, in imminent danger of everlasting damnation and confess that you deserve nothing better, there is something else God has to say to you.

There is a kind of sinner that He cannot despise, one whom He can indeed love without violating His holy character. "A broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise" (Psalm 51:17). Read the 51st Psalm and see the deep repentance portrayed, the unsparing confession of guilt, the utter renunciation of self, the thorough disgust with wicked ways, and the earnest plea for mercy and cleansing from God. It is then, and then only, dear sinner, that you can know of God's love. Then you will not need some bright eyed religious huckster to tell you that God loves you; His love will be profusely shed abroad all over your soul by the blessed Holy Spirit; and you will never be able to cease singing the praises of a merciful God who receives repentant sinners.

Come ye sinners poor and lowly; Jesus blood avails for you; for He saved the worst among you, When He saved a wretch like me. And I know, yes I know Jesus blood can make the vilest sinner clean!

8 posted on 07/09/2004 11:28:39 AM PDT by Darth Gill
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To: Darth Gill

You are correct; God loves his children, not everybody.

Otherwise he would be lying when he says he "hates all workers of iniquity" in an early Psalm...not sure which one exactly, but below 10.

However, God is still truly love even when he hates evildoers, as Scripture says in the NT that "God is love"....it is a paradox, but Scripture is full of such tensions for a reason. God is not a being we can fully understand.


9 posted on 07/09/2004 11:39:37 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" -- Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Darth Gill

I think it is pretty awesome for fox not to shun religion though.


10 posted on 07/09/2004 11:39:57 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" -- Abraham Lincoln)
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To: rwfromkansas

God's word is not full of paradoxes. That sounds like Cornelius Van Til. God does not hate and love someone at the same time. That makes God the author of confusion and we know that is false. Further, if God loved the reprobate, He would have sent His son for them. Love is not an emotion, it's an action, and God is actively working against those He had no love for.


11 posted on 07/09/2004 11:52:56 AM PDT by Darth Gill
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To: Darth Gill

I have not really got involved in the Van Tilian debates, so I can't really comment on that, though you are right that God can't be the author of confusion.

I do agree that Christ died for the elect only.


12 posted on 07/09/2004 11:56:14 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" -- Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Darth Gill

I have never read something so sick in my life. I am not a National Council of Churches commie but God does love and Jesus does love you and everyone - I don't care what anyone says.


13 posted on 07/09/2004 12:36:23 PM PDT by mandingo republican (Baal worshipers I tell ya! They are all Baal worshipers! - FREE HONG KONG, CUBA, IRAN!!!!)
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To: Darth Gill

Could you please reference where the Bible says that Jesus intends to laugh at the damned? Thanks.


14 posted on 07/09/2004 12:43:22 PM PDT by agrace
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To: agrace

Ps 37:13, (KJV), The LORD shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.

Prov 1:26, (KJV), I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;


15 posted on 07/09/2004 1:04:57 PM PDT by Darth Gill
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To: mandingo republican
mandingo - The reason it is sick to you is because you have not bowed before God's Sovereignty. You do not worship the same God that I do. You are a lost pagan. And you have my pity. Oh, you depraved man, you cannot come to a God in complete control of Salvation. You worship a god fashioned after your mind - one formed with your own hands. The Gospel is about what CHRIST did for HIS PEOPLE. It's not about Him loving everyone and people saving themselves through their "free will" decision.

My question for you is do you want to be saved by a Sovereign God that loves only His elect? Do you want to be saved by a Christ that came to live and die only for His people?

Do you want to worship the God who has appointed some to death and others to life?

If not, it reveals your hatred for GOD. If so, fly to Him to be reconciled.

Rom 9:18-19, (NKJV), Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. (19) You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"

Rom 9:22-23, (NKJV), What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

1 Thess 5:9, (KJV), For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Pet 2:8, (KJV), And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Prov 16:4, (NKJV), The LORD has made all things for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Jude 1:4, (KJV), For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ps 135:6, (NKJV), Whatever the LORD pleases He does, In heaven and in earth, In the seas and in all deep places.

Job 23:13, (NKJV), "But He is unique, and who can make Him change? And whatever His soul desires, that He does.

Isa 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

16 posted on 07/09/2004 1:12:27 PM PDT by Darth Gill
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To: Darth Gill

Thanks. I wasn't thinking of OT references, and couldn't bring to mind anytime in the NT that suggests Jesus would laugh at the day of judgement.

Regarding the references you made - the one in Proverbs is "Wisdom" laughing. And the other

"The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth. The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming."

Most translations say that the Lord laughs, not the Lord will laugh. And besides that, contextually, it seems to me he's laughing at their foolishness in this present life, not in the future as they suffer damnation.


17 posted on 07/09/2004 1:28:43 PM PDT by agrace
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To: Darth Gill; OrthodoxPresbyterian
Next on FOX: When Calvinists Attack!

Somehow, I don't think that John 3:16 allows for your interpretation.

18 posted on 07/09/2004 1:56:02 PM PDT by Buggman ("You can't tell a deaf Chinaman anything by whispering in French." --Protagoras)
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To: Buggman

Never put any stock in anyone who posts scripture (especially bunches of them!) on FR.


19 posted on 07/09/2004 2:30:08 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news.)
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To: LS
I have no problem with posting Scripture--I've done it plenty of times myself, when appropriate. It's the slader of God's character that I have a problem with. The way Darth Gill here twists the Scripture, he must want to rewrite a few classic Christian songs in the Pope of Geneva's honor:

Jesus hates the little children,
99.9% of the children of the world!
Red and yellow, black and white,
Those He hasn't arbitarily predestined are horrid in His sight.
Jesus hates the little children of the world!

Pardon me. I'm currently experiencing sarcasm overload after trying to wade through Gill's tripe.

20 posted on 07/09/2004 2:39:29 PM PDT by Buggman ("You can't tell a deaf Chinaman anything by whispering in French." --Protagoras)
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To: Buggman
I remember posting on threads with you 5 or 6 years ago, and you always combined scriptural support with solid reasoning to win the debate.

I see none of that from you on this thread, however. It appears Gill has made some convincing arguments that are undisputed at this point.

Are you up to the challenge, or are you willing to settle for merely making claims without backing them up?

21 posted on 07/09/2004 2:53:35 PM PDT by savedbygrace
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To: Buggman

I think one or two verses is fine, but when someone posts entire chapters, well, that is not only an agenda waiting to happen, but it indicates someone is not about his Master's business, cause he has way too much time on his hands.


22 posted on 07/09/2004 3:17:11 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news.)
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To: LS

chapters?


23 posted on 07/09/2004 3:34:00 PM PDT by Darth Gill
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To: Darth Gill

On the other hand.....

it is also written in Luke ch 9 that when some mocked Jesus and the apostles asked him "Should we command that fire come down from Heaven and consume them?" That (v55) Jesus rebuked them and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of"

Even as it is written in the OT (Isaiah 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth" it is confirmed in the New, where in 1 Timothy 2:4 it describes God as One "who desires all men to be saved and to come the the knowledge of the truth."

This is the One who declares in Ezekiel 18:23 "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord God ' I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather thatn the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'"

This then explains the attitude of heaven when Jesus taught in Luke 15:7 "there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous who need no repentence."

The Bible teaches that condemnation was not the ultimate purpose of the law, but rather to show man that he needed to trust in God rather than self-effort. Romans 11:32 states that".God has shut up all in disobedience that He might show mercy to all."

C.S. Lewis, Dr. Hugh Ross, and others have postulated that even the torments of Hell are not so great as the torments that the eternal unsaved might inflict on others were they granted freedom. The fires and chains of Hell are like cages and electric fences for mad dogs. Punishing the dog is not even the point.

A heresy is often a truth taken to untrue extremes. You may be right about the character of God, but I think you are taking only one part of His richer-than-man nature and presenting it as the whole thing. The overall effect of this is to present a false picture of who God is.

I hope you are wrong, or at least unbalanced, about who God is. I am not attacted to the picture of Him you paint, which shows His sovereignty and wrath, but not mercy and Love. Since the Bible teaches that "God is Love" I cannot help but come to the conclusion that you are de-emphasizing precisley that thing which His Word emphasizes as His fundamental composition. Even His wrath must be but a facet of His love.

I would caution you to rightly Divine the Word of Truth and quit misrepresenting God by holding up a faucet of His nature over the Core of His nature. Return to balance. I for one will be glad when He revenges Himself on His enemies- but I am not sure He will.



24 posted on 07/09/2004 4:17:14 PM PDT by Ahban
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To: Darth Gill

Love the sinner, hate the sin.


25 posted on 07/09/2004 4:22:30 PM PDT by Eva
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To: savedbygrace; Darth Gill; OrthodoxPresbyterian
For the record, I was posting from work and couldn't spare the time to go verse-by-verse with Darth Gill.

To be honest, I don't see that it would do any good. When someone posts in big huge letters, "Mourn God may Hate You!" they worship a radically different God than I, one more appropriately named "Allah."

But, since you asked and since I'm now in a position to go into some detail, I'll see if I can better present my view before I have to run off again.

The Bible is very clear that God does love everyone and does offer salvation to everyone. Consider His love: Christ said the two greatest commandments were first to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and the second is to love your neighbor as yourself (Mt. 22:37-40). He further defined "neighbor" to include even your bitter enemies, as the Jews were to the Samaritans (see Mt. 5:43-48, Lk. 10:25-37). Are we to suppose that God holds us to a higher standard than He holds Himself?

Let's also be clear that God's call for repentance is universal. That is, He calls everyone to repentence, not just "the elect." Per Jn. 3:16 again, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotton Son that whosoever would believe in Him would not perish but have eternal life."

The word translated "world" here (kosmos) is the same used of the universal planet earth in every other instance that John pens it. For example, He said to His brothers, "The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil" (Jn. 7:7). "If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you" (Jn. 15:19). There is absolutely no justification to reduce the kosmos to meaning only the elect.

If God does not truly call everyone to Himself, then Christ's words are a mockery and a lie: "Come to Me all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Mt. 11:28). And as Isaiah prophesyed, "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all" (53:6). The same "all" who sinned, which clearly includes every man, woman, and child on the planet, are the same "all" that Christ died to redeem.

Of course, while Christ died (potentially) for everyone, and would that everyone would come to Him and receive His forgiveness, not everyone does. But that's not because God created them to hate and enjoys casting them into hell, but because they have refused to turn to Him (see Rom. 10:8-13). God made us freewilled creatures; He calls us, but we can freely choose to resist the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51).

How then do we understand those verses that say that God "hates" sinners? In Hebrew thought, "hate" (sane) was not simply maliciousness, but to love less, or reject. For example, Isaac "hated" Leah (Gen. 29:31)--it wasn't that he wished her harm, but that he loved her less and rejected her in favor of his beloved Rachel. In the same way, God loves the nation of Esau (Edom) less than He loved Jacob (Israel) in Mal. 1:2-3, and He rejects the sinner. He rejected even Christ on the Cross when He became sin for us (2 Cor. 5:21), which is why Christ cried out, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" in the moment of judgment.

I have to run, so I'll have to cut my points short. Ultimately it comes down to this: If Calvinism rightly represents God, then He is a cosmic tyrant who punishes men for the sins that He makes them do, like a father who cuts off his son's legs and then whips him for not being able to run. Truly then, Jesus does not love the little children--He only loves a small fraction of them, and we should all be singing my sarcastic rendition of that childhood song instead of the rightful version that we all learned.

Conversely, if a balanced soteriology properly represents God, then He loves us as much as He commands us to love each other, and we are free moral agents and responsible for our decisions. Only if we are responsible for decisions is He truly just in condemning those who choose to continue in their sins and truly merciful in pardoning the redeemed.

26 posted on 07/09/2004 4:35:22 PM PDT by Buggman ("You can't tell a deaf Chinaman anything by whispering in French." --Protagoras)
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To: RaceBannon; All

27 posted on 07/09/2004 4:43:33 PM PDT by KevinDavis (Let the meek inherit the Earth, the rest of us will explore the stars!)
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To: Ahban
it is also written in Luke ch 9 that when some mocked Jesus and the apostles asked him "Should we command that fire come down from Heaven and consume them?" That (v55) Jesus rebuked them and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of"

Darth Gill: Of course, we do not know who the elect are. The wicked only receive temporal goodness for the sake of God's people. Remember, God is using this common bounty and their rejection of His goodness and His gospel to build up His wrath upon these sinners.

Even as it is written in the OT (Isaiah 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth" it is confirmed in the New, where in 1 Timothy 2:4 it describes God as One "who desires all men to be saved and to come the the knowledge of the truth."

Darth Gill: Sophmoric. Isaiah 45:22 - Christ has his people scattered all over the earth. They will be turned, there is no doubt about that. I don't see universalism in this passage.

And 1 Tim 2:4, the "all men" are all of His people from every tribe tongue and nation. You must use context. Besides, God always gets what He desires. If He desired the salvation of all men universally as you say, well, they would be! Who are you to declare God is impotent and dependent upon man to bestow the blessings of Salvation?

This is the One who declares in Ezekiel 18:23 "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord God ' I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather thatn the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'"

Darth Gill: God does take pleasure in the death of the wicked because it is a fulfillment of HIs will. The death of the wicked is a strange work for Him, but nevertheless, it is his pleasure, for the Lord does as He pleases (see above). This is just saying that God takes more pleasure in the conversion of sinners.

This then explains the attitude of heaven when Jesus taught in Luke 15:7 "there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous who need no repentence."

Yep, of course! I don't see how this proves your point. God delights and LOVES when His children come home.

The Bible teaches that condemnation was not the ultimate purpose of the law, but rather to show man that he needed to trust in God rather than self-effort. Romans 11:32 states that".God has shut up all in disobedience that He might show mercy to all."

Huh? The Bible says clearly that the Law was given as a CURSE! Heb 8:13; Luke 22:20. Further, Romans 11:32 is speaking of all of God's People, His elect. Just look at Gal. 3:22.

C.S. Lewis, Dr. Hugh Ross, and others have postulated that even the torments of Hell are not so great as the torments that the eternal unsaved might inflict on others were they granted freedom. The fires and chains of Hell are like cages and electric fences for mad dogs. Punishing the dog is not even the point.

I don't care what C.S. Lewis thinks.. He was a lost man when he wrote all those books. I don't know if he was brought to faith, but from all appearances, he's probably in hell experiencing eternal torment as we speak.

A heresy is often a truth taken to untrue extremes. You may be right about the character of God, but I think you are taking only one part of His richer-than-man nature and presenting it as the whole thing. The overall effect of this is to present a false picture of who God is.

I believe God is very loving! He Loves His People. God's LOVE must only be found in Christ. Christ is the central theme of all of Scripture. God's love to His people is ETERNAL and UNMEASURABLE. DOn't accuse me of teaching God does not love. His love is shed abroad in my heart day after day. You however, are the one guilty of taking this theme and DESECRATING and PROFANING it by giving it out to those who have been ordained unto condemnation. Can you imagine a wife hearing from her husband - "I love you, but I love all these other women too and even desire to marry them, but I love you just specially." Gag me with a spoon, because that is EXACTLY what you are teaching. You are teaching that God loves men after He's sent them to hell. Oh poor God, what is He to do? You've made Him into an IDOL after your imagination. You are the heretic my friend. REPENT!

I hope you are wrong, or at least unbalanced, about who God is. I am not attacted to the picture of Him you paint, which shows His sovereignty and wrath, but not mercy and Love.

Darth Gill: Of course you're not attracted to the picture I bring. However, you are misrepresenting me. God is full of mercy and love - I never denied that. I limit it to where SCRIPTURE limits it just as YOU limit God's hate to where Scripture limits it. I do not proclaim universal hatred, but you proclaim universal love.

28 posted on 07/09/2004 5:27:06 PM PDT by Darth Gill
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To: mandingo republican

Fox News & Fox & Friends are great.


29 posted on 07/09/2004 5:30:38 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Darth Gill

1 Timothy 2:4 "...God who desires all men to be saved and to come the the knowledge of the truth."

Darth Gill: "I dont see universalism in this passage"..."And 1 Tim 2:4, the "all men" are all of His people from every tribe tongue and nation. You must use context.

Ahban: "All men" seems to mean "All men" without any of the qualifiers that you want to shoehorn into God's Word.

Darth: Besides, God always gets what He desires. If He desired the salvation of all men universally as you say, well, they would be! Who are you to declare God is impotent and dependent upon man to bestow the blessings of Salvation?"

Ahban: God does get what He desires in the long run, even though His desire includes giving us the freedom to violate His will in the short term. Did God "desire" that David commit adultery with Bathsheba and murder her husband? And it is not ME saying this. Jesus (to give just one example) said in Matthew 23:37 "Jerusalem O Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to help her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling."

If God gets what He wills no matter what we do or say then why would Jesus tell us to pray "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on Earth, as it is in Heaven"?




Ezekiel 18:23 "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord God ' I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live."

Darth Gill: God does take pleasure in the death of the wicked because it is a fulfillment of HIs will. The death of the wicked is a strange work for Him, but nevertheless, it is his pleasure, for the Lord does as He pleases (see above). This is just saying that God takes more pleasure in the conversion of sinners.

Ahban: What can I say? You have a doctrine and for the sake of that doctrine you will twist and reject scripture that reveals the very heart of God. God is sovereign, but He sovereignly chooses not to exercise His full power in this world. You take a truth, God's sovereingty, and then take it to lengths that would negate scriptures like this one and make us all robots.




Romans 11:32 states that".God has shut up all in disobedience that He might show mercy to all."

Darth Gill: Huh? The Bible says clearly that the Law was given as a CURSE! Heb 8:13; Luke 22:20. Further, Romans 11:32 is speaking of all of God's People, His elect. Just look at Gal. 3:22.

Ahban: None of those references you give back up your claim for them in any way. I would invite the readers of this thread to look them up for themselves to confirm my statement. I further invite them to read the classic passages in the previous part of Romans to verify that the purpose of the law was indeed to show us we are sinners in need of His salvation, unable to fulfill the law in ourselves.




Darth Gill:I don't care what C.S. Lewis thinks.. He was a lost man when he wrote all those books. I don't know if he was brought to faith, but from all appearances, he's probably in hell experiencing eternal torment as we speak.


Ahban: What appearances would lead you to the astounding conclusion that C.S. Lewis is roasting in Hell?




Darth Gill: You are teaching that God loves men after He's sent them to hell. Oh poor God, what is He to do? You've made Him into an IDOL after your imagination. You are the heretic my friend. REPENT!

Ahban: One of us defintely needs to repent. I am sure of that. I am not sure that we are friends.

Yes, God even loves those who have rejected Him. When in Hell I suppose they will know that, and that will make their torment all the worse, but they have chosen and once this life ends I beleive our choices are immortalised along with us.




Darth Gill: Darth Gill: Of course you're not attracted to the picture I bring. However, you are misrepresenting me. God is full of mercy and love - I never denied that. I limit it to where SCRIPTURE limits it.......

Ahban: I think we have all seen what you do to scripture to get it squeezed into your doctrines. You add limits to what scripture proclaims. The limits to the scripture I see are the ones that you tack on to the ends of these verses I am quoting.


30 posted on 07/09/2004 7:48:52 PM PDT by Ahban
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To: All

I agree that Fox and Friends and FNC are great. Last year they were doing call-ins and a lady called in and said she was praying for the soldiers. The show's host was named David (I think) and he said,"Yes pray that the Lord will watch over them". I loved it. You won't hear this on CNN.


31 posted on 07/09/2004 7:49:01 PM PDT by ClarenceThomasfan ( We want a Bush landslide in November!!!)
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To: Darth Gill

Aren't you glad someone told you that you were of the chosen few.


32 posted on 07/09/2004 11:23:36 PM PDT by WKB (3!~ It may be above my pay grade but it's not above my pray grade)
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To: ClarenceThomasfan

"I agree that Fox and Friends and FNC are great. Last year they were doing call-ins and a lady called in and said she was praying for the soldiers. The show's host was named David (I think) and he said,"Yes pray that the Lord will watch over them". I loved it. You won't hear this on CNN."

This, of course, is at least part of the explanation for why some hate Fox News so vociferously. It's the same reason that so many hate our President and other people who won't hide their faith. I think that Fox News is willing to let their newscasters be themselves and express themselves without fear of being fired, and that freedom allows them to do the great work that they do.


33 posted on 07/12/2004 11:33:07 PM PDT by Brandi in AZ
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To: mandingo republican

Marked to read later.


34 posted on 07/12/2004 11:46:34 PM PDT by DocRock
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