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To: zarf; unaffliliated; Dane; Tall_Texan

Zarf, you made an excellent point and now I want to point out something that is going to get those who read this and identify themselves as social conservative very angry.

You see, social conservatives are not really "conservatives". Those who readily identify themselves as politically active SC's are almost always just religious fanatics. And, religious fanatics are, based on their (often admirable and passionate beliefes) striving to achieve Utopia. At the end of the day, they want basically what the Taliban wants, which is complete and literal observance to whatever scripture they purport. And, this means everyone and if someone refuses they will be forced to do so. Of course, if everyone really did listen to what Jesus taught we would live in a Utopia. If everyone acted the way Karl Marx thought it would also be great. (Please do not think I am equating Marx with Jesus, rather showing the parallel that sexpectations that all people will act properly are utter nonsense) A real conservative will immediately let you know that this is only the wishful thinking. That does not mean we can't make things better, just not perfect.

Real conservatives begin and end their thought processes by reminding themselves that Utopia (by its very definition) is not to be achieved. RATS want to social engineer everyone there and so-called Social Conservatives want to pray and, yes, legislate everyone there.

This is not to say that SC's often stand on the right side of the debate - to the contrary. Just that the manner in which they self-righteously do so is not only off-putting to more moderate folks, but downright scary in a Sharia Law kind of way.

For most Americans, including true conservatives, talking about denying people rights rarely strikes a positive cord. The abortion issue aside, SC's often (and perhaps for good reason) give your average moderate the feeling that they have no intention of stopping with their current demands and that a first they came for the . . . is always just the tip of a much larger SC iceberg agenda.


44 posted on 07/12/2004 3:28:05 AM PDT by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (Tax Energy not Labour.)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

Why don't you guys keep it up and divide the GOP as much as you can then on election night maybe Michael Moore, George Soros, Whoppi Goldberg, John Mellancamp or Chevy Chase will invite you to one of their victory parties.


47 posted on 07/12/2004 3:34:45 AM PDT by no dems ("Gay marriage" is an oxymoron.)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
Your statement that American social conservatives want "basically what the Taliban wants" demonstrates an apparent lack of understanding of Christian, particularly evangelical Protestant, theology.

All orthodox Christians recognize that Jesus said to Pilate that "My Kingdom is not of this world." His last command to His disciples recorded in Acts 1 calls for the spread of the Gospel to "the uttermost part of the earth." Christ's personal example, and that followed by the disciples, as evidenced throughout the New Testament, was to spread the Gospel via preaching and witnessing. While there were some unfortunate exceptions to the rule, notably during the Crusades (which, FWIW, were an attempt to recapture formerly Christian lands that had been conquered by the Muslims) and by the Spaniards in Latin America, the Christian faith was spread throughout the world through the means via persuasion and not compulsion.

The Christian Right in America is dominated by evangelical Christians, members of conservative churches, Baptistic, Calvinist, holiness, or charismatic/pentecostal that adhere to orthodox Christian doctrine and believe in Biblical inerrancy. Their religious beliefs come far closer to those of the majority of the Framers of the Constitution than any other religious or philosophical tendency in American society. Most (although not all) of these Christians subscribe to a premillenial view of end-times prophecy, which believes that it will be Jesus Christ Himself, and not any political leader, who will establish a 1000 year Kingdom of God on earth, as Revelation indicates will occur.

Not all Christian conservatives think alike. Many are way too statist for my own liking, rejecting the original intent of the Constitution, economic freedom, or states' rights when a program they support is under consideration. As an example, many Christian conservatives do not support ending Federal involvement in welfare, but argue for "faith based" programs, enabling that their agencies receive a piece of the pie.

However, most of those who protest the agenda of the Christian Right do so from a libertine, "anything goes" mentality. Liberal courts have manufactured a structure of "rights" in the last 40 years: abortion, homosexual marriage, euthanasia, "no fault" divorce, pornography, vagrancy, etc. These "rights" have nothing to do with what the Founders of this republic conceived of as being unalienable rights. These vices had been illegal under Anglo-American common law since medieval times. Before 1960, if you wanted to live in an immoral environment, you left Podunk and moved to places like New Orleans or San Francisco. I hardly think that the pre-1960 state of American culture equates to that of Afghanistan. Those who think so must fear consequences for their lewd behavior.

Liberal courts and elite opinion makers have deprived local governments of the ability to control vice and the will to do so over the last few decades. To a large extent, the nightmare scene in "It's a Wonderful Life" has become true: clean living Bedford Falls has become sleazy Pottersville.

The Christian Right has many flaws. One of them is not their desire to raise American society out of the degradation caused by broken families, sexual perversion, and a jaded, sated population.

56 posted on 07/12/2004 6:18:33 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
Just that the manner in which they self-righteously do so is not only off-putting to more moderate folks, but downright scary in a Sharia Law kind of way.

Considering what I read some of the more religious folks say about homosexuals on FR, your statement about the imposition of a conservative "Sharia Law" is not far fetched.

59 posted on 07/12/2004 6:41:23 AM PDT by zarf
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