Posted on 07/15/2004 8:26:10 AM PDT by areafiftyone
As for Tolkien's philosophical beliefs, they can't be missed when reading 'The Hobbit' or 'The Lord of the Rings'. His worldview jumps out at you like the giant spiders in the forest Mirkwood. It's a non-starter to say anyone, except perhaps a nutburger, could infer from his works that Tolkien believed the creatures of Middle Earth ever existed in reality.
Although I am not familiar with the bands 'Creed' and 'Evanescence', I will take your word about their lyrics and belief systems. I would agree that using Christian imagery in their music does not make them committed believers in Christ. In fact, you say they deny belief in Christ. Why do they sing about Him, then? To try and capture some revenue from the burgeoning Christian music industry? I don't know, but at least they are honest about their beliefs.
So you tell me why Osbourne sings about the things he does.
How could anyone understand it if Ozzie did bash Bush?
That's why they had to use a video!
Anyone who calls that noise, music, is delusional. The great bands of the 50s and 60s are gone, and so is real rock 'n roll. The drech that passes for "music" these days is horrid, putrid and Kerry-esque.
Osbourne and his whole subhuman, dysfunctional "family" would greatly benefit the human gene pool by taking permanent dirt naps.
I believe, sir, you may have answered your own question here. There's no difference in the two groups of musicians except that we agree with the lyrics one group uses and disagree with the other. I frankly don't know why Evanescence or Creed use so much Christian imagery in their lyrics, but both groups readily admit that they are not believers. I don't know why Ozzy uses so much occult imagery in his lyrics, but he's been equally honest in interview after interview saying he's not a Satanist.
One must be consistent.
Well, shared values et al. . .Kerry campaign should consider using him; should not matter to Kerry whether he is a citizen or not; after all; Kerry is a 'Euro/fascist' anyway.
Perfect description of Hollyweird leftists.
. . .and still he lives.
Let's see. . .'Ozzy Ozborne; the man who shot his wife's seventeen pet cats; assails the character of President Bush and denounces his policies as irresponsible. . .or in his own words. . .'
You should give a warning before posting that...LOL
On the other hand we have bands like Black Sabbath that sing in support of the occult and even recognize occult figures like Aleister Crowley in their music. Crowley is not a casual figure in the history of the occult in the twentieth century. From all accounts, Crowley took himself and his work in the occult quite seriously, and though he may have made a living from his chosen course of study, he could not be said to have been in it for the money. And most assuredly not in the Victorian United States of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.
So why do bands like Black Sabbath have such a loyal following? Is it because they support the occult in their lyrics, or is it that their music is superior? Or both? And why would an individual, if they did not agree with the tenets of a particular belief system, promote those same tenets in their work? Especially if they opposed another belief system to which the individual had already professed fealty?
Let me ask you another question that may appear to be off subject. Pretend for a moment that you are a salesman. The principle often referred to as the 'Golden Rule', that you should treat others as you would have them treat you, is ingrained in your character. You enter into this new profession with hope and enthusiasm, optimistic for success. Sales don't happen as quickly as anticipated and so you seek out the most successful sales representative in the firm for advice. Before dismissing you from his office he says he will share his secret with you. Pushing his chair over to yours he looks you straight in the eye and says, "When I meet a customer for the first time, I use the initial meeting to try and size them up. If I get the sense that they're the religious, Bible thumper type, buddy I'm right there with 'em praising God. But if they love to carouse and raise Hell, then boy I'm cursing and laughing when they take the name of God in vain."
What is your opinion of this man's character? Is he someone to trust? Would you accept an offer of tutelage from such a one? Is what we take in through our eyegate and eargate any less important to our health and well being than the food we eat?
LOL!
Credit (blame?) must go to martin_fierro, who came up with that nightmare. :)
Seriously, every other day when someone is compared to Hitler - well it has gotten WAY overused. Phil Hendrie talked about that on his show and he hit the nail on the head. Yeah Oziie, Hitler, 2 peas in a pod.
**"So why do bands like Black Sabbath have such a loyal following? Is it because they support the occult in their lyrics, or is it that their music is superior?"**
BLACK SABBATH LYRICS
"After Forever"
Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in your grave
Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you?
Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?
When you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool?
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope - do you think he's a fool?
Well I have seen the truth, yes I've seen the light and I've changed my ways
And I'll be prepared when you're lonely and scared at the end of our days
Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say
If they knew you believe in God above?
They should realize before they criticize
that God is the only way to love
Is your mind so small that you have to fall
In with the pack wherever they run
Will you still sneer when death is near
And say they may as well worship the sun?
I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ
I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced
Will you be so sure when your day is near, say you don't believe?
You had the chance but you turned it down, now you can't retrieve
Perhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead and gone
Open your eyes, just realize that he's the one
The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate
Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it's too late.
--hmmm....
Do any subsequent Black Sabbath albums contradict these sentiments? Have you ever heard anyone from the band discuss these lyrics?
Ozzy, Evanescence, and any OTHER performer you'd like to name are just that...performers. It is in this light that ANY public statements they make, lyrics they write, and even allegedly "unscripted" moments must be viewed.
Someone I once knew who was connected to show business told me that ANYTHING you hear about is best assumed to be a "work", that is, a furtherence of the performer's "image" at that time, no omatter how "private" the thing you heard about is. Rest assured, these so-called stars can easily hide what they wish from the masses. If something you heard flatly CONTRADICTS their current "image", it may, and I stress "may", have a kernal of truth.
As this relates to Mr. Osbourne, let's look at his history. In the '70's, the occult was quite a popular topic in culture, what with movies, books, and the like written dealing with it. Hard Rock acts at the time, like Ozzy's Black Sabbath and later Blizzard Of Ozz, tapped into this trend, and used it to great publicity. They even figured out a NEW "work"...while singing about the occult, and using its imagery onstage, they nonetheless proclaimed that they were NOT Satanists. This claim was merely a means to keep parents from forbidding their children from listening or purchasing records. In other words, they played to kid's rebelliousness on one hand, sopped the parents on the other, and winked at their fans as if to say, "Don't worry...YOU know what we are!" it made the teenaged fans feel part of some exclusive, secret club. In all this, however, there is no evidence of any rockers of the era ever actually performing a Black Mass or worshipping Satan! Thus the "work"...they merely put on a show. Their own lives and their actual actions must be considered in toto...Ozzy, while a monumental drug and alcohol abuser, has remained faithful to his wife for over 25 years, and has at least attempted to be a father to his children (with less-than-stellar results, granted).
Now that his wilder years have taken their toll, and the "madman" has entered his 50's, he has re-invented himself for TV as a sort of comic figure, while still giving a nod or two to his old life onstage. We have no way of knowing what the true thing is, however.
I submit that all the lyrics, imagery, and accoutrements of the occult that Ozzy used or uses are merely part of a finely-tuned image he wishes to put forth. So, too, is his profession of Christianity. This image is his livelihood, and thus he can be expected to do anything possible to maintain it, whether or not it was ever true. I doubt that it was. I think that all he ever was is a party-animal type who cared much more for drugs, alcohol, and fun than he ever did about Satan OR God. Both of those, and the controversy they caused, kept him in clover for many years. To this day the old "legend" of his past and the "mystery" of the occult crap help pay the bills.
Heck, I've even heard a lot of credible reports that he's not nearly as skullfried as he appears to be on his show. All part of the "work", you see.
I guess this is a long winded way of saying that you can never believe ANYTHING a performer says, or releases about himself, or even that he believes his own lyrics. It must ALWAYS be considered part of the "work". It's intended to get some people condemning, and some praising (as it has on this very thread, LOL!), and the cash register ringing.
Regards,
LC
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