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NEA Cautioned Not to Accept American Psychological Association's "Just the Facts"
NARTH ^ | July 16, 2004 | Staff

Posted on 07/21/2004 2:15:51 PM PDT by EdReform

NEA Cautioned Not to Accept
American Psychological Association's "Just the Facts"

July 16, 2004 - Dr. Warren Throckmorton, in association with Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays, distributed a paper on sexual orientation at the recent National Education Association (NEA) conference.

Dr. Throckmorton and associates Zoe Gutierrez, Jeralee Smith, and Chad Thompson, produced "A White Paper in Reaction to 'Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation and Youth,'" a document jointly published by the NEA and several mental health organizations, including the American Psychological Association.

In the introduction to this paper, Dr. Throckmorton states: "This white paper reviews the essential claims found in 'Just the Facts,' suggesting a need for caution in the presenting of dogmatic claims about sexual orientation to school children."

He notes four problematic areas in "Just the Facts":

"We favor both a zero tolerance policy toward harassment and the presentation of accurate information," said Throckmorton.

In the conclusion of this paper, the author says: "Without consensus [on the nature of sexual orientation], it becomes necessary to inform students of the varied opinions on the subject with ample opportunity for equal presentation. For instance, if a proponent of the essentialist position speaks to school students, we believe that someone who has found change in sexuality should be invited to present the constructionist/developmental viewpoint."

NARTH has also published a rebuttal to the "Just the Facts" paper. "NARTH's Response to 'Just the Facts about Sexual Orientation and Youth'" is available for downloading from the NARTH web site.


Copyright © NARTH. All Rights Reserved.

Updated: 19 July 2004



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: analagenda; apa; homosexual; homosexualagenda; nea; prisoners; scientology
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To: EdReform
You criticize Dr. Spitzer's research methodology, yet you hold Dr. Hooker's research as beyond reproach.

I would never say any study is beyond all possible reproach, and I haven't. However, I would say that Hooker's research was far more fair and scientifically sound than any other work of its kind, and its soundness is demonstrated by how it has held up to scrutiny of peer, it's replicability, and the broadness of its acceptance in the scientific community.

By contrast, the so called science offered by those on the anti-gay side has been universally rejected and denounced by legitimate science.

Hooker and several homosexual researchers' studies were documented to be fraught with flaws in using a sub-standard methodology sure to give an unreliable and inaccurate result, and they used survey participants, supplied by homosexual activist groups, with an inherent bias and motivation to skew the results.

Everything you've said here - flawed methodology, unreliable and inaccurate results, activist subjects, and a motivation to skew results - does not describe Hooker's work. It perfectly describes the work of Paul Cameron, whose work you embrace, who is the one man, anti-gay propagandist who was expelled from the APA for ethics violations and questionable methodology.

But you already knew that.

51 posted on 07/21/2004 8:36:36 PM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: EdReform
Negligently flippant conclusion for a medical professional?! I seriously doubt that you have the professional credentials to render criticism of any medical professional.

So, it's your opinion that one has to be a licensed medical professional to give such an opinion? Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to misunderstand you.

Are you saying I would be out of line, because I don't have a medical degree, to say it's unethical for a doctor to give opiates to children without a prescription? I shouldn't state my opinion that a doctor shouldn't sexually molest a patient under anesthesia?

Tell me where you draw the line at giving a layman's opinion about medical ethics because I find this desire of yours to silence dissent very curious.

52 posted on 07/21/2004 8:40:51 PM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: EdReform

bttt


53 posted on 07/22/2004 3:44:41 AM PDT by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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To: randog

40 Aug 26-Sep 1, 1999

Confessions of a LUG


Throughts on the queer practice of being 'lesbian until graduation'




There is a truth to the conceit we develop in college that the "real world" somehow exists outside our current circumstances. The confined, secluded space of higher learning enables us, ever so briefly, to embark on flights of fancy without the very real repurcussions that await out there, in the real world.

In the faux universe of the ivory tower, idealism grows unchallenged by reality, and experimentation is encouraged and protected.

One manifestation of this temporary cessation of consequences is what's commonly referred to as "Lesbian Until Graduation." The brash, bright hetero girl plunges into the netherworld of girl-girl romance only to emerge years later, diploma in hand, straight as a ruler for the remainder of her days.

I wasn't a LUG in the strictest sense of the word; I never gave up men entirely. Call me a BUG (Bisexual Until Graduation). I had small crushes on women before, but nothing beyond the realm of my imagination had happened -- until I met Amy.

Tall, pale, with long locks of dark blond hair that stretched down her back, I was certain she'd been plucked from Sandro Botticelli's "Birth of Venus" and placed on earth for my enjoyment. She was the editor of the university newspaper, and I was her star columnist. Our attraction was, at first, that of two best friends destined to keep in touch for life. But by the end of one listless summer, when we were both unemployed and mostly single, an undeniable sexual heat had developed between us.

One night, we got drunk on cheap swill and did the deed. Embarassed, we giggled over our small feat for weeks. It was the first and last time we'd make love. But, hot damn, it was amazing!

I had other encounters with women, but none quite matched the heady rush that followed the first. I quickly became disenchanted with the notion of, well, going down. How could men manage this for minutes on end? I wondered, "Breasts?" They couldn't compare with firm shoulders. And the soft, sweet feminine touch was no match for the firm, male thrust.

Emotionally and intellectually, I found more to like in the complicated process of two people attempting to merge from opposite ends of the gender pool than I did in the simpler equation of lady meets lady, hence the toilet seat stays down.

Worse still, after mentioning my lesbian exploits to friends, I found myself pressured to turn these seemingly innocent trifles into something far more serious.

"You must tell everyone you're bisexual," a friend demanded. "It's a political statement."

I wanted to support my gay and bisexual sisters. I really, really did. The problem was, every time I affixed the the word "bisexual" to my long list of identity markers -- white, female, liberal Democrat, carnivore, etc. -- it didn't seem to fit.

"Couldn't I just be sexual?," I asked my politically active friend.

No. Apparently, I could not.

There was no getting around it. I was straight. At the time, it felt very unfashionable, uncool, politically incorrect.

Lesbian friends of mine say there's nothing they hate more than LUGs. Unlike these Lesbians For Life (LFL), we collegiate experimenters never had to endure coming out to our families, confronting a lifetime of discrimination, being refused the right to get married, adopt children, walk down the street holding hands with our significant others. We have our fun, often at the expense of a true lesbian's feelings -- Oops! Thought I was gay. Sorry! -- and move along.

LUGs have the luxury of trying out something different and walking away without any serious repurcussions. Try explaining that to someone whose parents have disowned them or who's been turned down for a job because of sexual preference.

While I understand the LFL's frustration, I wish they felt differently. We former lesbians might have only been messing around with societal constructs, but it's unquestionable that the experience makes us more attuned to gay issues, more likely to speak out against discrimination -- after graduation.

Imagine, if you will, that being Gay Until Graduation was as acceptable in our society as being a LUG. (The unlikelyhood of such a hypothesis makes it clear that the real world, however watered down, still exists even within the ivory tower.) Imagine if fraternity boys could do more than fraternize in the showers. If male college athletes, geeks and hipsters could enjoy each other sexually, if only once or twice. If straight boys trying each other on for size was dismissed as playful experimentation.

Would this not go a long way toward stamping out homophobia and sexism? Wouldn't a congressman, preacher or manager who's had a penis up his ass and liked it be more likely to accept someone for whom it's a regular practice?

There are no real answers to these questions, but in the confined, secluded space of my imagination I like to picture the possibilities. ©

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:t0gGZWFWPeMJ:www.citybeat.com/1999-08-26/cover3.shtml+Lesbian+Until+Graduation&hl=en


54 posted on 07/22/2004 3:58:38 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: tdadams; Always Right
However, I'm skeptical and even those involved in the "ex-gay" research admit the success rate is very low and limited to those who are highly motivated and who dedicate many hours over many years to therapy.

If I understand correctly, the same applies to schizophrenia.

Shalom.

55 posted on 07/22/2004 5:14:41 AM PDT by ArGee (After 517, the abolition of man is complete)
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To: annyokie
I hope, as one of the "non-crackpots", you aren't justifying your position with this anecdotal evidence.

From what I understand, the notion that they are homosexual flies in the face of their very heterosexual bodies. The compulsive inability to accept reality is a mental disorder, although not necessarily a debilitating one. If I believed I was Napolean, everyone would know I was disturbed. However, unless I tried to claim the throne of France, or took other destructive action, most would allow me my fanciful belief.

We can question whether homosexuality should always be treated or can be left alone, but we should not be questioning whether it is mentally healthy. It is a compulsive denial of reality.

Shalom.

56 posted on 07/22/2004 5:22:19 AM PDT by ArGee (After 517, the abolition of man is complete)
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To: ArGee
If I understand correctly, the same applies to schizophrenia.

Putting aside whatever implication you were trying to make, you are not, in fact, correct. A majority of cases of schizophrenia are easily and successfully treated with medication.

57 posted on 07/22/2004 5:23:02 AM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: EdReform
Some behavioral sciences insist that there are no sexual deviations, only alternative or different lifestyles, and that these conditions are merely a matter of social definition, some made permissible by society, and others socially condemned.

This is probably the most important statement in the entire homosexual debate because it explains the overwhelming desire of most heterosexuals to ignore reality and support homosexual behavior.

To the "reality" point: I have pointed out repeatedly that human bodies are heterosexual. There is no question that humanity is heterosexual. Without the two sexes joining together to reproduce there would be no humanity. This biological fact (as separated from the spiritual and emotional ties that go with sexual behavior) is obvious to any casual observer and should not need debate. So why does it continue to be debated?

The real problem is with having a concept called "sexual deviancy." People don't like the concept. They don't like the idea that they may be deviants. I wouldn't like it. And the problem comes with drawing the line. Is sexual deviancy anything outside of the missionary position with the lights off? Is it OK to do it with the lights on? How about other positions? How about oral sex?

Some people have a hard time with the normal balance that life requires and always want to go to extremes. Either all sexual behaviors are OK (Hey, we like our sex a little rough. Sometimes she gets bruised. You got a problem with that?) or nothing that is not geared toward having children is acceptable (You mean you use birth control?). (Note to Catholics - I'm talking social belief here, not religious belief. I am not intending to comment on the religious belief that birth control is outside the will of G-d. I'm not qualified to make such a comment nor to challenge the Magesterium.) Real life exists in the balance. Honest debate would seek the balance, not the poles. But we are pulled toward the poles anyway because that's the best we can do.

What do I think is an honest balance? I think it's establishing as the norm that sex is intended to be a free and loving expression of the committment of a man and a woman who have committed themselves to each other for life. I believe we can be tolerant of expressions outside of the normative as long as those expressions don't become destructive of our way of life. I believe we have gone too far toward tolerance, such as the "free love" expressions that have lead to the breakdown in the black family and the near destruction of their culture.

I think it's sufficient for schools to not teach this, but to allow the normative expression to be the one that is modelled until well into High School. I believe that parents are the ones with the responsibility to deal with their children's questions about sexuality - both identity and practice.

I also believe that if we could stop polarization of another kind - that only macho men are true men and only bubbilicious babes are true women - that we would solve a lot of the sexual identity problems we have. I know lots of effeminate boys who are affirmed in their basic masculinity by their fathers who grow up to be effeminate, heterosexual men. There's a range of masculine and feminine in all of us, with men balancing toward masculine and women balancing toward feminine. But being a macho woman does not make one a dyke, and being a "girlie-man" does not make one gay. If we could just understand that, and help our teens understand that, much of the rest of this debate would quietly go away.

</soap box>

Shalom.

58 posted on 07/22/2004 5:41:37 AM PDT by ArGee (After 517, the abolition of man is complete)
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To: tdadams
Not being a medical professional, I could have given a host of examples of mental illness. Alcoholism comes to mind.

I will admit to not being an expert on schizophrenia. I do understand that nearly all psychotherapy requires years and a serious effort on the part of the patient toward healing. To say that homosexuality is hard to treat successfully is not the same as to say that it is not a mental illness. It would take more than that.

Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Only one, but only if the light bulb truly wants to change.

Shalom.

59 posted on 07/22/2004 5:49:53 AM PDT by ArGee (After 517, the abolition of man is complete)
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To: tdadams
"We even have one of those crackpots sitting as a U.S. Supreme Court Justice."

Which justice is that?
60 posted on 07/22/2004 10:05:29 AM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: tdadams
Hello, Cabin Boy. Did you know that the button is your friend? Well, maybe not yours, but anyway....

"Tell me where you draw the line at giving a layman's opinion about medical ethics because I find this desire of yours to silence dissent very curious."

In post #45 of this thread, Ed disagreed with you, and closed his disagreement by saying, " You are certainly entitled to your unqualified opinion, though."

Your reply to that post concluded with the first italicized paragraph above.

Explain how saying that you are entitled to your opinion indicates a desire to silence you.
61 posted on 07/22/2004 10:24:17 AM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: tdadams
Hello, Cabin Boy. Did you know that the (To msg#) button is your friend? Well, maybe not yours, but anyway....

"Tell me where you draw the line at giving a layman's opinion about medical ethics because I find this desire of yours to silence dissent very curious."

In post #45 of this thread, Ed disagreed with you, and closed his disagreement by saying, "You are certainly entitled to your unqualified opinion, though."

Your reply to that post concluded with the first italicized paragraph above.

Explain how saying that you are entitled to your opinion indicates a desire to silence you.
62 posted on 07/22/2004 10:32:43 AM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: Wampus SC
Did you miss the part of his post in #45 that I quoted, "I seriously doubt that you have the professional credentials to render criticism of any medical professional."?

It's dismissive and intended to nullify a perfectly valid point, a point he disagrees with and would like to castigate. And the analogies I made demonstrated very well that one need not have professional medical credentials to question the propriety of a doctor's conduct.

63 posted on 07/22/2004 10:33:18 AM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: tdadams
Why must some refuse to admit that some people are very well adjusted being homosexual, and it's their nature to be that way.

I have never seen anyone say that.

64 posted on 07/22/2004 10:37:55 AM PDT by cinFLA
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To: little jeremiah

truth bump


65 posted on 07/22/2004 10:49:27 AM PDT by John Lenin
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To: tdadams
"Did you miss the part of his post in #45 that I quoted, "I seriously doubt that you have the professional credentials to render criticism of any medical professional."?"

No, I didn't miss it. However, my request was that you explain how anyone who is encouraging you to express your opinion by saying that you're entitled to it, is really an attempt to silence. But you just jumped to something else. That's OK, I know evasiveness is a powerful rush to a certain kind.

"It's dismissive and intended to nullify a perfectly valid point, a point he disagrees with and would like to castigate. And the analogies I made demonstrated very well that one need not have professional medical credentials to question the propriety of a doctor's conduct."

Oh, you poor, suffering, persecuted thing! That mean, wicked Ed was dismissive! Boo hoo.

Actually, I think your analogies demonstrate what you say they did. How about that. I'm agreeing with you on that point.

Trying to nullify someone's point is just debate. Now we learn you cite that as evidence of trying to silence you. And yes, son, Ed did disagree with you. Big deal. We do that all the time. But now, we learn that to you, merely disagreeing with you indicates an attempt to silence you.

So, what have we learned about the world of tdadams? It's a world where debating him or disagreeing with him is the same as trying to silence him. Even when you tell him he's entitled to his opinion.

I've learned a lot about where you're coming from now that I know that you equate debate, disagreement, and expressing opinions with attempting to silence people. Especially when you debate us, disagree with us, and express your opinions all the time. Hmmmm..........
66 posted on 07/22/2004 11:08:52 AM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: Wampus SC; tdadams

So, which Supreme Court Justice is a crackpot?


67 posted on 07/22/2004 11:12:02 AM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: Wampus SC

The one that wrote an essay advocating lowing the age of consent to 12. Most know the wench I'm talking about.


68 posted on 07/22/2004 11:20:28 AM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: tdadams
Assume for sake of argument that there is a male homosexual who does not want to be homosexual. He wants to be exclusively heterosexual in his sexual activities.

Should he be allowed the chance to change his preferred activities, or should he be either prevented or discouraged from changing them?

I'm asking you this because you seem to come across as a person who beleives that everyone of both heterosexual and homsexual preferences should have personal liberty and equality. And like to hear your answer from that perspective.
69 posted on 07/22/2004 11:23:41 AM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: randog
I heard a new term yesterday--LUG...Lesbian Until Graduation.

What the heck does it mean ?

70 posted on 07/22/2004 11:24:13 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Many a law, many a commandment have I broken, but my word never.)
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To: tdadams
"The one that wrote an essay advocating lowing the age of consent to 12. Most know the wench I'm talking about."

Yep, evaded again. Couldn't even say the name. That would have been direct and straightforward, rather than evasive. Again. (Holy moly, he did it on something as simple and small as this!)

So, for the benefit of those who don't know, what's the name of the Supreme Court Justice that you say is a crackpot? (Come on... you can do it...)
71 posted on 07/22/2004 11:29:28 AM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: Wampus SC

He should be permitted to do whatever he feels is best for him, free from the coercion and impelling of others who are not a party to his struggles. I'm not sure what that has to do with the article in this thread.


72 posted on 07/22/2004 11:30:08 AM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: Wampus SC
Oh, come on. What is your problem? You see an adversary even when I'm on your side. That's bewildering, absolutely bewildering. I'm seriously floored.

Perhaps you're not familiar with that particular essay written by Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Most everyone here is. Most here also understand witticism.

73 posted on 07/22/2004 11:37:36 AM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: tdadams
"He should be permitted to do whatever he feels is best for him, free from the coercion and impelling of others who are not a party to his struggles. I'm not sure what that has to do with the article in this thread."

Thank you for answering.

It has a lot to do with many articles and posts in many threads, this one included. Trust me that it'll be extremely helpful, in many more ways than you know.
74 posted on 07/22/2004 11:37:40 AM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: Wampus SC
Trust me that it'll be extremely helpful, in many more ways than you know.

Cue spooky music. Arghhhhh.

LOL

75 posted on 07/22/2004 11:38:39 AM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: tdadams
"Perhaps you're not familiar with that particular essay written by Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Most everyone here is. Most here also understand witticism."

Yes, I was familiar with it. How about that? :)

Thanks for answering a simple little question, finally, after repeated tries. This makes two times in one day you finally stopped evading on simple little things. First time for everything. A second time is a bonus. There may be a sliver of hope.

(BTW, as to being bewildered, don't sweat it. It's OK for you not to understand what's really going on.)
76 posted on 07/22/2004 11:47:19 AM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: Wampus SC

You really need to lighten up and learn to differntiate between being evasive and being humorously coy. You're making something out of nothing.


77 posted on 07/22/2004 12:02:05 PM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: tdadams
That's right. When there's no squirm room left, just change the terminology. Standard operating procedure. I should have seen that tactic coming. Silly me. (lol) So now it's "coy". OK.

But why be coy, bub?

I note your request that I lighten up. Maybe I should. I didn't realize this was too heavy on you.
78 posted on 07/22/2004 12:16:35 PM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: Wampus SC

You're being captious for entertainment's sake. That's pitiful.


79 posted on 07/22/2004 12:23:49 PM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: tdadams
"You're being captious for entertainment's sake. That's pitiful."

Good. It worked. I was hoping that's what you'd think I was doing.
80 posted on 07/22/2004 12:31:02 PM PDT by Wampus SC (Inflambo the wonder pooch will now retrieve the magical all proving last word.)
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To: Centurion2000

See post #54--Confessions of a LUG.


81 posted on 07/22/2004 12:34:14 PM PDT by randog
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To: tdadams; scripter; little jeremiah; lentulusgracchus; ArGee

However, I would say that Hooker's research was far more fair and scientifically sound than any other work of its kind...


Balderdash. Hooker's research is not scientifically sound and you know it. Very serious questions have been raised about Hooker's research methodology as documented here :

"Evelyn Hooker has been among the most influential figures in the highly successful movement to convince the American people that homosexuality is a "normal variant" of human sexual behavior. Her 1957 study, "The Adjustment of the Male Overt Homosexual" (Journal of Projective Techniques, 1957, 21, 18-31) is the most frequently cited scientific source for the argument that homosexuality is not a pathology, that homosexuals are as free from mental disorder as heterosexuals.

Such assertions have not only found their way into standard psychology textbooks but have also provided a scientific basis for decisions in major court cases involving the legality of state sodomy laws and prohibitions against homosexual employment in certain state and local agencies (e.g., schools, police departments). Indeed, when the American Psychiatric Association debated the issue of homosexuality in 1973, Evelyn Hooker's work was Exhibit A for those who wanted to remove homosexuality from the group's list of mental disorders.

For many commentators and activists, the Hooker study effectively ended the debate over whether or not homosexuals were in any way abnormal in their relationships with each other and with the community at large. Today many Americans have accepted the idea that homosexuality is "normal" and "healthy" without realizing that such an opinion is derived in large measure from a single study -- one conducted by a UCLA professor whose previous laboratory subjects had been rats.

In all this extravagant homage to Hooker and her study, several points have escaped her admirers, to say nothing of the federal courts:

1. In her 1957 report, Evelyn Hooker did not use a random sample to test the stability of homosexuals, but allowed gay rights activists to recruit those homosexuals most likely to illustrate her thesis that homosexuality is not a pathology. Individuals who proved unstable were deleted from the final sample.

2. Hooker's published account of how she recruited heterosexual subjects is not consistent with a more detailed later account.

3. Six subjects in her study, three from each group, had engaged in both homosexual and heterosexual behavior beyond adolescence.

4. Hooker made several errors in her mathematical calculations that raise doubts about her care and competence as a researcher.

5. Hooker did not attempt to prove that homosexuals were normal in every way, nor does her study support the idea that homosexuals as a group are just as stable as heterosexuals.

6. Hooker was relatively inexperienced in administering the Rorschach test, and this inexperience may have led to mistakes in the administration and evaluation of the Rorschach.

7. On the Thematic Apperception Test and the Make-A-Picture-Story test -- which require subjects to make up fictional narratives about depicted scenes -- the homosexuals could not refrain from including homosexual fantasies in their imaginary accounts. For that reason, Hooker altered the nature of the study by no longer asking the judges to use the TAT and MAPS in an attempt to determine the sexual orientation of each of the 60 subjects, since the differences were apparent from the narratives...

CITATIONS AND USES OF THE HOOKER STUDY

Perhaps as important as the Hooker 1957 research itself is the use that others have made of her findings. Not only has this single study with only 60 subjects been cited repeatedly by prominent psychiatrists, social critics, and gay activists; but such summaries have also been accepted as part of the expert testimony in high-profile court cases nationwide.

Curiously, many of those who cite the study not only incorrectly summarize its content but do so in remarkably similar fashion. It's as if one commentator misread Hooker and all the rest derived their knowledge from that single erroneous commentary..."


An excerpt from "When Wish Replaces Thought: Why so Much of What You Believe Is False" by Professor Steven Goldberg, Chairman of the Sociology Department at City College of New York, Prometheus Books, January 1992:

"...Virtually every homosexual spokesman who has argued that homosexuals demonstrate no greater pathology has rested his case on an article by Evelyn Hooker without noting that Professor Hooker selected for individuals who did not manifest any of a number of signs of pathology...to invoke this study as demonstrating that homosexuals demonstrate no greater pathology than heterosexuals is like selecting a sample of 30 six-foot-tall women and six-foot-tall men and concluding that women are as tall as men..."



Everything you've said here - flawed methodology, unreliable and inaccurate results, activist subjects, and a motivation to skew results - does not describe Hooker's work.


Flawed methodology, unreliable and inaccurate results, activist subjects, and a motivation to skew results are all indicative of Hooker's study. Hooker's research is rightfully criticized because she went out of her way to stack the deck in favor homosexuals by selecting only those who showed very little psychologic pathology. It's been documented that Hooker actually used a homosexual activist group to carefully select participants for her study:

SELECTION OF SUBJECTS

First, to find her homosexual subjects, she enlisted the early gay rights group Mattachine Society, which, as she put it in her published report, "has as its stated purpose the development of a homosexual ethic...."[3] Members of the Mattachine Society volunteered for the study and also recruited their friends. Hooker, herself, created a "control group" of heterosexuals for the experiment, despite the fact that on the standardized tests she intended to use, norms had already been established.


And not only is Hooker's research rightfully criticized, but several other pro-homosexual researchers as well:

An excerpt from "Sexual Orientation and Psychoanalysis: Sexual Science and Clinical Practice"

"Hooker, Spitzer, Schidlo and Schroeder: Convenience Samples Differentially Treated

Without being critical of the Hooker research , Friedman and Downey describe the non-representative, convenience samples used in her studies of homosexual men: "Through word of mouth, Hooker recruited highly functional, socially well-integrated homosexual men." (P. 235).

In spite of the non-representative nature of the samples, the authors uncritically accept Hooker's research as being scientifically valid.

Yet they are very critical of Spitzer's similar use of "convenience samples." And they completely ignore the use of convenience samples by Schidlo and Schroeder. For example, Schidlo and Schroeder's solicitation of those who were "harmed by reparative therapy" was a blatant example of bias. (P. 270-271).

Consider the following advertisement for participants in the Schidlo study:

"Help Us Document the Damage of Homophobic Therapies: In association with the National Lesbian and Gay Health Association, we are conducting research on the outcome of treatments that claim to 'cure' homosexuality.

"Our purpose is to document the damage that we believe occurs when a lesbian, gay or bisexual client receives psychological help from a provider who promises to change a person's sexual orientation. We are looking for individuals who have experienced such a program and who are willing to talk about it confidentially by telephone, email or by filling out a written survey."

It is interesting that Schidlo and Schroeder changed the title of their study from "Homophobic Therapies: Documenting the Damage" to "Changing Sexual Orientation: Does Counseling Work?" because some of their study participants actually reported that there were benefits--and, in some instances, change in sexual orientation..."


82 posted on 07/23/2004 8:05:55 AM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - All donations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support!)
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To: ArGee

Very well said!


83 posted on 07/23/2004 8:16:16 AM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - All donations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support!)
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To: familyop

BTTT


84 posted on 07/23/2004 8:19:25 AM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - All donations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support!)
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To: tdadams

[Hooker's research]... its soundness is demonstrated by how it has held up to scrutiny of peer, it's replicability...


Please provide citations that support your contention. And when you post your citations, please include an excerpt.

Here's an example:

Same-Sex Sexual Behavior and Psychiatric Disorders

Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2001;58:85-91

Background It has been suggested that homosexuality is associated with psychiatric morbidity. This study examined differences between heterosexually and homosexually active subjects in 12-month and lifetime prevalence of DSM-III-R mood, anxiety, and substance use disorders in a representative sample of the Dutch population (N = 7076; aged 18-64 years).

Results Psychiatric disorders were more prevalent among homosexually active people compared with heterosexually active people. Homosexual men had a higher 12-month prevalence of mood disorders (odds ratio [OR] = 2.93; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.54-5.57) and anxiety disorders (OR = 2.61; 95% CI = 1.44-4.74) than heterosexual men. Homosexual women had a higher 12-month prevalence of substance use disorders (OR = 4.05; 95% CI = 1.56-10.47) than heterosexual women...

Conclusion The findings support the assumption that people with same-sex sexual behavior are at greater risk for psychiatric disorders.





"If you make a contention, the burden is on you to be able to prove it conclusively... So, until you can back up what you post with some legitimate, objective citations, I'll continue to remain skeptical."

-- tdadams ( 234 posted on 02/13/2004 6:16:52 PM PST by tdadams )

85 posted on 07/23/2004 12:30:28 PM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - All donations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support!)
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To: EdReform

Bump. EdR - Proved his points, conclusively.

td - lost another one, as usual.


86 posted on 07/24/2004 12:55:19 AM PDT by little jeremiah ("You're possibly the most ignorant, belligerent, and loathesome poster on FR currently." - tdadams)
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To: little jeremiah

You wish. More self delusion on your part. Enjoy your folly. No one with any intelligence or reason is buying it.


87 posted on 07/24/2004 5:50:56 PM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: tdadams

:)


88 posted on 07/24/2004 5:55:50 PM PDT by little jeremiah (The Islamic Jihad and the Homosexual Jihad both want to destroy us.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Ping ( #82 )


89 posted on 11/19/2004 1:58:13 PM PST by EdReform (Free Republic - helping to keep our country a free republic. Thank you for your financial support!)
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