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To: Nick Danger
Why would that be amusing?

It is amusing since you are reacting in a similar fashion to one whose religion is being threatened / disparaged.

What has Microsoft done to you personally to make you feel so threatened and insecure?

It's a little late for that, don't you think? For at least the last ten years, Windows has come free with any computer consumers can buy. And IE comes "free" with Windows. As does Media Player. Tens of millions of consumers now think that computers come with a free operating system, web browser, and media player.

That is a specious statement and is equivalent to postulating the fact tires come free with any car you buy, so people are trained to expect free tires when they want/need a new set. That argument does not wash.

The cost of the operating system is included in the cost of the computer just as the cost of the tires are included in the cost of the vehicle. The same is true of Internet Explorer and Media player. At one time radios were an expensive upgrade to a car. But now, you would have a difficult time finding a car in a dealer show room without one. At one time, an internet browser was a costly add on product (ie, Netscape at $50) but now it is just standard equipment in the operating system. It is not free, just included in the cost of the OS. I feel sure, a couple of cents/dollars is factored in to the cost of every Windows license to pay for Microsoft's development expenses related to IE & media player. Its just not listed as a separate fee.

I am not advocating the fact that open source is evil though it does smell of communism:
com·mu·nism   Audio pronunciation of "communism" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kmy-nzm)
n.
  1. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.
  2. Communism
    1. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.
    2. The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.

It is admirable the dude at Midnight Pizza software is giving of his time so generously. On the same token, it is not evil for a person to desire to charge for the work that he produces / owns and protect his intellectual capital from others using it without renumeration.

Again TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

33 posted on 07/27/2004 11:01:19 AM PDT by GeorgiaFreeper
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To: GeorgiaFreeper
A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power,

Now does that sound more like the OSS model or the proprietary model?

Let's see: OSS, run by the people and any person who isn't happy with those running a software project can take it in his desired direction (your branch will survive or die on its merits). Microsoft, you take what the authoritarian central power says you need or switch to a different authoritarian provider.

34 posted on 07/27/2004 11:20:57 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: GeorgiaFreeper

That is true. I am one who believes that it is possible to make a lot of money in business while conducting one's affairs in an honest, above-board, professional manner.

I think that hiring cut-outs to file media-stunt lawsuits against your competitors is sleazy, thuggish, and contemptible. I think that funding bogus "think tanks" to write hit pieces about individuals who head no company and sell no goods is creepy. I think that using a bogus news site run by a Washington lobbying firm to salt the public dialog with slams on home hobbyists is the act of a sociopath who hits people for fun.

I do not like those behaviors. I think they evince a corporate culture that is seriously twisted and vile. I think that in turn points to a corporate leadership that is fundamentally dishonest, ethically blind, and which has lost sight of what business — indeed life — is really about. My belief is that he who dies with most toys does not win if this is how he came about them.

Call that a religion if you like. I do not believe it is necessary in business to cheat or steal or lie to people. I have never hired thugs to beat up my competitors. I have never used corporate resources to smear private individuals who have no real ability to answer my smears.

They offend my sense of right and wrong. The corporation has the behavioral characteristics of a sociopathic thug. It is absolutely true that such characteristics are highly well-adapted to this world, and succeed in it. Bill Clinton got to be President of the United States. Bill Gates is the richest man in the world. It works. But I don't have to like such people, and I don't. Ronald Reagan got to be President of the United States too. You don't have to be a lying, scheming, sociopathic thug to get ahead in this world. I have seen with my own eyes that a Vietnamese "boat person" can start a donut shop in this country and be a millionaire in ten years. All he has to do is work his buns off, make good donuts, and sell them at a fair price. He doesn't need to hire sleazeballs to sue Winchell's, or hire bogus restaurant reviewers to say that Krispy Kreme's donuts are full of poison.

What kind of guy does stuff like that? You tell me. Gates does this stuff. He thinks it's part of business. I don't.

You're trying to have this both ways. When Dell or Microsoft do it, it's "bundling," but when Red Hat bundles the software with support, all of a sudden they are "giving away software" and that's somehow weird, unusual, and socialist. You're just throwing spears with unclean hands.

Now we need to decide whether you are ignorant of how open source software is owned and licensed, and made that statement because you don't know any better, or whether you are deliberately trying to mislead your fellow Freepers in the same way that the Microsoft Corporation deliberately tries to mislead people, i.e. by lying about it.

As you noted yourself, communism involves common ownership of property. There is nothing like that in open source software. The bits and pieces are owned and copyrighted by their respective authors, and licensed for use by those authors under some set of terms and conditions.

There is no difference between that arrangement and any other copyrighted and licensed software.

None of it involves common ownership of property.

It has nothing to do with a system of government.

The "communism" thing is basically a dishonest slur promoted by Microsoft and its shills to disparage something that they are afraid of, and insecure about.

These are quite often the same guys, which is what makes this "let's spread slurs about guys who do open source software" so stupid. A few years ago I worked for a company where the CTO was a Microsoft Man. We had Exchange, and SQL Server, and all that stuff. But at night, this guy was a BeOS freak. He would go home and work on little toys that ran under BeOS. He thought this was fun.

What actual threat did BeOS ever pose to Microsoft? I can't imagine. It's like General Motors worrying that Carrol Shelby is going to make some more Cobras. So what? Nevertheless, Microsoft managed to turn this loyal customer into a blood-sworn enemy with some sort of thuggery that they performed on BeOS. I don't know what they did. But the last I heard, this guy was ripping out all the Microsoft stuff and replacing it with linux, Apache, and Postgres.

This idea that there are paid programmers over here, and some camp of commie moonbeams over there, is just stupid. It's the same guys. If you call them communists at night, when they are working on Python or Gnome, they are going to remember that the next day when they are at work, writing technical assessments for the pointy-hairs on the bids that came in for the new system.

39 posted on 07/27/2004 1:01:07 PM PDT by Nick Danger (Kerry lied, while good men died.)
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To: GeorgiaFreeper
It is admirable the dude at Midnight Pizza software is giving of his time so generously. On the same token, it is not evil for a person to desire to charge for the work that he produces / owns and protect his intellectual capital from others using it without renumeration.

Ahh and there is the rub, where has anyone said that you should not be able to write your own software and change for it?

54 posted on 07/28/2004 2:32:02 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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